Your Comments on "The Tool of Violence"

This is an old video of a brutal attack in an Australian Train Station. I want you to view this from the aspect of using the tool of violence. Listen to the police description of the attack but focus on the use of the tool and give me your thoughts by using the comments link at the bottom of this blog.

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128 Comments »

• Dave Zajac, Bristol CT 6.14.2009 5:55 am
  Well, these guys are scum. Their targeting sucks. When one guy finally kicked the temple target he finally got the knockout. It goes to show that you can't count on anyone else for help. You need to help yourself. You could see the victim was trying to talk his way out and reason with these guys (social/antisocial interaction) but these guys were totally asocial. They just wanted to have some fun with violence. Animals that needed to be taken out.

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• Anonymous 6.17.2009 11:12 pm
  I think maybe they let the assailants get the drop on them, maybe some more more distance between the officer and perpitrator would have given him time to react. I know of no techniqe or mindset or whatever that will allow an unarmed woman to defeat a big pissed of man who is on her pounding on her its to late at that point. we must not let people get to close especially if weapons come in to play. someone can cut your throat in the blink of an eye if you stand closely to them stand away and if they come after you then the intent is clear and you can escape or attack as needed. that is what i think was missing and sometimes people are just outmatched by very violent people and get hurt or killed its trajic but it happens. we train to try to defeat these horrible people and pray we never have to. thanks, Logan Chico, CA

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 1:22 am
  anonymous…
  It is clear these thugs knew how to use violence. They used it without remorse, but just hit their target (head). They even used the wall well. They were confident since they were in a group. What was also apparent was the ease with which they knocked the victim into a submissive (later unconscious) state. The violence really started when the victim let himself be surrounded by these thugs. He clearly tried to reason with these dirt-balls after being hit, and they probably got a huge kick out of it. Second big error: he stayed down as if he belonged there. It's possible he may have not been able to actually get up. Due to the antisocial nature of the violence, the reasoning didn't work. It probably fueled it. hope those dirt-balls were caught and roughed up a bit.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 1:37 am
  People are missing the point.
  The point is that a deadly weapon, to whit, a shod foot, was used. I am quoting directly from Massachusetts law there.

  It shows when criminals want to hurt someone, they will. If the vicim had been able to carry a gun, it could have evened the odds.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 1:41 am
  Concealed carry and fighting skills. Without these one is a victim as shown. The Ausies are a good bunch of folks but they let their politicos disarm them and make victims of them. Had these poor misguided abos ran up against the usual Ausie that I have known. Would have been another story.

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• Mark Pyrtle 6.18.2009 2:02 am
  From the aspect of using the tool of violence, the perpetrators were not emotionally invloved and had no problem using violence. The victim on the other hand cared too much about the thugs and how much pain they would be in if he injured them. He had the opportunity.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 2:04 am
  The attackers were sloppy with their use of the tool of violence, taking their time and as previously mentioned, targeting was the pits. The injured guy should have inflicted an injury on any of the attackers, when they started closing in on him – definitely invading the personal space should have been a clue as Chris would say "that it was on" – a well placed strike to the solar plexus of the one that got in front of him could have provided him with a body to get between him and the guy against the wall while he landed a strike on the one following him. Being proactive could have easily changed the outcome as the hits came immediately after he hit the ground – but even so – since the first two weren't actually "injuries" he had plenty of targets in reach from where he was sitting on the ground if he had chosen to "reach out and strike someone".

  Charles – Clarksdale, MS

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• Bruce Len 6.18.2009 2:17 am
  I agree more with the first comment, but disagree strongly with the 2nd.
  First, lets go over this from the standpoint of the attackers use of the tool of violence.
  Their technique was sloppy, but it did work. They left themselves open to attack from the victim (but I guess felt they outnumbered him, so they weren't worried.
  The first attempt at a spinning back kick (as the victim hit the floor) did nothing to the victim other than glance off him. The next 2 kicks were much better aimed and certainly turned his system off for abit. At this point, I am not sure how coherent or co-ordinated he was any longer, and may have not been able any longer to fight back effectively.
  The next kick did nothing, very poor targeting.
  In the meantime ,the victim is trying to talk his way out of the altercation to no avail (a perfect example of social versus asocial behaviour).
  After this, the attackers AGAIN leave themselves very open to attack by the victim, but at this point I still do not think he was capable of mounting a good counter-offensive.
  The next kick is definitely more on target, and the final kick shuts him off like a lightswitch. Great targeting (or just dumb luck).
  From the victims standpoint, it is not clear if he was having an amicable chat with these guys, or if he was already feeling threatened by them. If he was enjoying shooting the breeze, he was most probably unaware of the danger he was in, and may not have been able to counter anything until he was on the floor.
  If he already felt threatened, he could either have tried to run, or at least get himself away from being totally surrounded by them, at which stage ho could start attcking them. It is a small hallway, and if he is facing them, it would have been more difficult for them to surround him again. He would have controlled the corridor.
  Once he was on the floor, it makes it a little more difficult to use violence, but only a little. The attackers left themselves open to easy attacks to the groin, the knees, and many other spots on their lower bodies. If he would have moved right away into attack mode (and knew TFT), there is, in my humble opinion, at least a 70% chance that he would have walked away, and at least 2 if not more of the attackers would not have.
  Needless to say, after the fourth and fifth kick there was nothing coming from him anymore.
  This is of course only conjecture, as I was not there, and all we're seing is the security video from one vantage point.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 2:26 am
  It almost seemed like the person being attack knew the people attacking him. He seemed unaware, hands in pockets, looked like he was joking with them.

  The attack its self was unexpected.
  The targeting was random/and poor and didnt seem to get any real damage done. A lot seem to miss the targets intended. The whole attack appears to becoming the norm (many againts one.)

  As usual, even in a very public place you have to be aware of your surrounding , pay attention to the people around and be prepared.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 2:33 am
  They grabbed the guy (throwing him off balance, disorientation) and used simple kicks to the head to take him out. There were no poetic, flowery movements involved, just simple blunt trauma to the individuals CPU courtesy of the attackers feet. They knocked him out and walked away. There is no reason why a person who is being attacked could not do the same thing, without years of MA training. Pick the target and connect.

  Shawn, Fairlawn OH

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• Charley 6.18.2009 2:35 am
  Watching this sickened me. I would like the instructors to comment on some options the victim had in this situation. Having taken the course in Dec 08, 2 options come to mind. Run and get some distance/help or a preemptive strike. If a preemptive strike, which one would take out 1st, 2d?

  Charley
  Millbrae,CA

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• Lisa, Seattle 6.18.2009 2:47 am
  Even if the victim had been armed (impossible in Aussi-land) it would not have done him any good since the attack happened so fast and so close. The only possible way for him to have saved himself would have been to go on the attack as soon as those three mutts got uncomfortably close and he felt threatened. 3 on 1 – freaking cowards.

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• Phil 6.18.2009 2:59 am
  Hard for me to say because I'm new to this but it seems that once it started there was ample opportunity to injure at least one of the attackers as they were pretty haphazard in their attack. I doubt he'd have been hurt any worse if one of the thugs was rolling around next to him looking for his eye.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 3:02 am
  The problem is this white guy has had his sense of himself, his masculinity and has had his desire to fight programmed out of him by society. No social engineers install "governors" into reticular activations systems of young African males which is why they have sex with animals and infants thinking they can cure themselves of AIDS!

  It is for this reason that Target Focus Training is ultimately of limited value UNLESS those who study it undergo some other "trial to attain manhood" on the sly so as to free themselves of the conditioning that turns them into punks like this kid. It is also why a civilized white society cannot allow Africans to emigrate. Every country that has imported Africans has lived to regret it. White people will be extinct by 2050 anyway and then all the Africans will go back to being slaves to the Chinese. It has already begun!

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• Ryan 6.18.2009 3:21 am
  once again it shows that violence isnt hard to do.. these guys didnt use their size or strength to do it.. they JUST DID IT. A good reminder that nothing else really matters except getting the injury.. and to the previous comment.. you want to be close! or else you wont be able to injure THEM first.. and a woman can crush a windpipe or dig out an eyeball just as easy as anyone else.

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• GTC 6.18.2009 3:36 am
  There are many facts to be learned from this video. I have experienced the potential for similar incidents when I was in Sydney Central Railway Station (I was a member of the 2000 masters games Sri Lanka basket ball team, I was with two other team mates). The first obvious point to notice

  1. was that the victim walked into a lonely poorly lit area (in a railway station?) when he should have noticed the odd looking guys (body language, voice tone and behavior) so close to him and behind him – a bad mistake

  2. He let them crowd him in without emitting (?) strong predator signals to that tall guy who was the 'leader' to pass on the clear non -verbal message -I am watching you, back off, you are too close (territorial limits), you could get very badly hurt, even if you hurt me.

  3. The victim (poor young chap) never expected or was prepared for such a violent confrontation in a dark lonely place which he ventured into alone. A bad mistake) He could at least have shouted and pointed at the CCTV camera, but he probably did not even see it.

  4. He just caved in and cowered making his attackers more aggressive and arrogant. He did not even shout when the young couple passed by – they too seemed intimidated by the situation.

  5. Anyone who is aware and powerful should have immediately looked at them directly and 'non verbally informed these 3 guys, especially the tall guy, – you are looking at:
  (a)'someone who may kill you, so watch out'

  (b)It was obvious that the 'leader' most violent guy was the tall guy, trying to impress his smaller companions.

  (c) This guy should have been directly watched with an aggressive and direct eye contact with a sense of concealed but obvious power – smile, talk smooth and politely. But the real message being 'don't try it, you really don't know me, you may lose your life. Go ahead make me happy (forgive me Tim, I maybe watching too many Clint Eastwood films

  (d)at the first sign of attack, this tall guy should have been disabled with a very hard nose break palm, eye scratch, with max impact so that he should have been on the ground. Obviously followed by crushed testicles. (please forgive me Tim for trying to talk the way you do:-). But you ARE a good teacher.

  I will meet up with you sometime, Tim, guys. take care, and thank you for the valuable info.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 3:39 am
  The couple who witnessed the attack and did nothing, not even call police when they reached safety, are just as scummy, if not more so, than the dirtbags who committed the act.

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• Stuart Howard 6.18.2009 3:43 am
  Maybe if he had been aware of his surroundings earlier he might have avoided this. You could tell when he first appeared he had given up. The best block is not to be there when it is thrown. A trained alert person would not have allowed their self to be in this position. Even the best can't defend when asleep.

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• Fred 6.18.2009 3:43 am
  Truly disgusting display of asocial violence. The victim is lucky to be alive, thanks to the assailants' sloppiness. This clip shows how quickly violence can erupt. Some guys get a little too close from behind, one decides to have a shot at you, and the pack of dogs is all over you, before you even realize you're in danger. They're vicious cowards, obviously, but they do have a one redeeming quality: they illustrate just how sneaky and ruthless street violence can be. I'll be even more aware from now on.
  Fred Burtt, Reno, NV

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• Ben 6.18.2009 4:08 am
  From a stance of violence the attackers clearly used it. They did not hesitate once an attack was started, regardless of pauses between or lack of aim. They also used superiority, in this case numbers, to their advantage. They also used intimidation of further violence toward the witnesses, as shown by posture, refusal to leave and probably words or expressions, to prevent interruption of their activities. They clearly owned the situation and the violence in it.

  As for the victim he failed to use violence and also to recognize, as often said, that once it has begun your only way to truly stop it is to disable the person that is attacking you. He instead attempted to reason, bargain and/or plea his way out of the situation. This obviously did not work.

  While the situation was disturbing, especially where others refused to assist in any way, it does show very clearly how violence can be carried out.

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• Keith C 6.18.2009 4:11 am
  So three guys came up behind this other guy and dished out some head trauma…gotta tip my hat to them. Who knows and who cares what happened before this but it looks like they accomplished their goal of beating an innocent man into the pavement. Is it sick and deranged?…Oh ya. They looked like a circus sideshow while trying to use some form of kicking with which I'm not familiar with. At the end however, it was enough to take the guy down temporarily but the guy DID walk away in one piece. I guess people around that area (like the guy and girl that walked by) don't call for help and criminals like to beat people in front of security cameras. In other words, people don't give a damn about helping about as much as the criminals don't give a damn about injuring. Isn't that the world of violence in a nutshell?

  BTW, I don't agree with anonymous. Being "outmatched" is being in a state of mind of what's being done to me. Perhaps like the guy in the train station?

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• Keith C 6.18.2009 4:14 am
  So three guys came up behind this other guy and dished out some head trauma…gotta tip my hat to them. Who knows and who cares what happened before this but it looks like they accomplished their goal of beating an innocent man into the pavement. Is it sick and deranged?…Oh ya. They looked like a circus sideshow while trying to use some form of kicking with which I'm not familiar with. At the end however, it was enough to take the guy down temporarily but the guy DID walk away in one piece. I guess people around that area (like the guy and girl that walked by) don't call for help and criminals like to beat people in front of security cameras. In other words, people don't give a damn about helping about as much as the criminals don't give a damn about injuring. Isn't that the world of violence in a nutshell?

  BTW, I don't agree with anonymous. Being "outmatched" is being in a state of mind of what's being done to me. Perhaps like the guy in the train station?

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• Ron the Hun 6.18.2009 4:24 am
  1st. Why oh why is this guy in a blind hallway surrounded by perps. You always must be aware of your situation and surroundngs.

  2nd. Why ever did the 5th guy and his female companion walk through the kill zone as if on anti psycotics. Geez.

  3rd. In Austrailia no guns, that sucks and this same thing could happen to Americans if we don't keep fighting for second ammendment rights. So, if it were me and I walked into this trap I would consider myself under attack. The closest guy would get his ankle (see I am a TFT guy) broke in as many places as possible just moments before I remove his eye ball. I would then kick a sixty yard field goal with the second closest guys privates. I would then throw the eyeball in my mouth and proceed to chase the last SOB until SWAT did a felony take down on me. Then I'd smile and swallow. Not guilty by reason of being scary er insanity. Or they can save all of this gore and give all without a criminal past the right to carry a firearm. RK

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• Ron the Hun 6.18.2009 4:37 am
  Personally, I can't believe that the gentleman just walked down this blind hallway followed that closely by three bad guys. Why are they bad guys? You have a right to space around you or you are under attack. I just have to say that the fifth guy and his female companion walked right by without harm so for some reason the victim in this case was an intended victim and the attack took place before anyone laid a hand on anyone. In that situation, If I were the victim and since this is Austrailia where guns are Banned. I would turn to the nearest guy and break his ankle (REF TFT). I would immediately remove the same fellas eyeball. I would then kick a 60 yard field goal using the second attacker's groin and follow that with a knee to the chin/nose. I would then throw the eyeball in my mouth and chase the last attacker until he found Jesus and outran me or I was tackled by SWAT and Felony arrested. Then just smile and swallow. Inocent by reason having a flashback of Vietnam.

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• ebrooks90 6.18.2009 4:38 am
  From a violence standpoint they had penetration. The rotation/follow through is there as well. The targeting was not perfect, but they did get the injury. Our targeting is not going to be 100 percent all the time, that is something you have to be prepared for. You pick another target and put eveything into it. That is the mistake that these guys made after they missed, they started to talk before trying again to obtain injury. the guy was given a chance to retaliat or get away had he been aware.

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• dave turner 6.18.2009 4:38 am
  Yo this was the perfect example of asocial violence he should have broken them from the onset of the situation.

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• T. A. C. 6.18.2009 4:40 am
  The victim in this assault was simply that a victim. He was also naive and befriended thugs who had "marked" him. It is obvious to me that they had decided that he was a "mark" and had intent to take whatever they could from him long before the act of violence was employed. They in my personal assessment are not novices at this and this is likly not the first time they have employed similar tactics to get what they want. Contrary to what another commentator said this was an organized assault and if you pay attention the targeting does not "suck" it is neither ideal however you will notice that there is organization and actual choreography to the assault. The assailants worked as a team and after befriending the "mark" to lull him into a "friendly jovial and peacefull sense of security" they attackerd at the appropriate moment. The victim was in over his head from the onset of the assault and in my view likly intoxicated. I also suspect that this was not a simple aggravated assault and mugging but also the target was chosen because he fit the profile for the highest probability of success for three assailants to violently take whatever they desired with no regard whether the victim lived or died. Any number of the attacks and attempted attacks could have resulted in the victims death.I would also clasify the assault as a hate crime. To Keep it simple the victim was a victim and do to circumstance and the events that transpired he should count his lucky stars that he lived to see another day and breath again……

  Thank You for giving me an opportunity to share my thoughts on this attack.

  To those of you who have not yet sunk your teeth into TFT I give TFT My Highest Accolade. If you desire to live a more peacefull, confident life… being aware of dangers that you may possibly face is nice however knowing how to survive that violence is better…. and that is what I personally GUARANTEE you TFT will give you…TFT will provide you with the knowledge of how to employ violence successfully 100% of the time… the choice of when you need to employ that violence well that resposibility lies squarly on your shoulders and more specifically the computer between your ears that rests there….

  Personally Id rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

  Again a personal thank you to Mr Larkin and his cadre for bringing this material to their clients at such a high professional standard.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 4:51 am
  Don't think any training would have helped this guy. He got sucker punched from behind and went down too fast. Lesson is to always be aware of your surroundings and prepared to act. Be a little paranoid. If legal, have a weapon and don't hestitate to use it. Do not show as a threat. They will just take it away from you.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 5:13 am
  I cannot say in words how I feel about criminals…I promise its nothing nice. What I believe everyone can learn from this video is the use of violence is effective even by those who have no training. Imagine what these guys may have done if they trained in the use of violence…scary thought. Although the perps were sloppy and missed there targets several times, it didn't really matter. Once the victim was down and the 1st injury was made, the victim was done! The three stooges had all the time in the world to do whatever they wanted. Thankfully they didn't feel it was necessary to finish the job.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 5:14 am
  It doesn't need to be pretty, and it doesn't need to be well executed…anyone can do violence. Connect with one target and the deed is done. You do not need a Black Belt or a Certificate to kill somebody.

  M.Fish, AZ.

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• J Daughrity 6.18.2009 6:13 am
  First, this recording simply reinforces the fact that you cannot reason or talk your way out of every potentially violent encounter – these guys were out to cause some trouble, and nothing was going to stop them. They chose their target and decided to do their thing – their movement formation and body language signaled the attack before it occurred. They used the "tool of violence" adequately in this situation, unless the objective was to kill the victim. They attack like thugs – while they are good at hitting the head, targeting is poor – or the victim would be dead. In any case, they succeeded in neutralizing the victim until they got away with whatever their goal was (robbery? intimidation?). Video displays the importance of first: situational awareness/perception of the threat (the victim did not seem to prepare himself in any way for what was coming – i.e. his hands were in his pockets while talking to the aggressors!), and second: the physical ability and offensive mindset to effectively deal with the situation. Just one more reason (as if it was necessary…) to remain diligent in our training. Law of the jungle – only the strong will survive….

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 6:46 am
  3 on 1, lured into a false sense of security.. this guy had no chance. And I don't believe TFT would have helped.. maybe against one and maybe if he exact enough violence, he might have scared the other two off. But however, I don't believe this would have happened. Like I say.. he was probably in an amiable conversation, relaxed and guard down.. and then these cowards struck.
  But no more cowards then the oriental couple who walked on by.
  Explain that one Tim!?
  Wil, Hereford England

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 6:52 am
  This is the type of thugs the public rarely sees. This sort of violence loses it's reality when it is described by only words. Yet the public is trained by the media to want rehabilitation for the criminal. I'll bet this not the only evidence the system has about these guys. The Police are rarely there when this occurs. Are you ready to protect yourself and your loved ones?

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• Kamal Bey 6.18.2009 7:21 am
  FROM WHAT I CAN TELL THIS POOR YOUNG MAN FELT THE VIBE BUT LACKED KNOWLDGE OF WHAT TO BE FEARFUL OF ANY ONE OF THOSE BLOWS COULD HAVE KILLED HIM WITH THAT IN MIND SURVIEING THE FIRST ONE SHOULD HAVE PUT HIM IN KILL OR BE KILLED MODE ,FEAR OF MORE SEEMS TO HAVE KEPT HIM ATTEMPTING TO TALK WHEN TALK TIME WAS OVER.THIS IS THE SAME THING I THINK HAPPENS TO WOMAN DEFENDING AGAINST MEN LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT INJURY VERSE DEFENCE AND TEACHERS NOT LETTING /OR TEACHING THEM TO BE PROACTIVE IN A SURVIAL SITUATION
  IN MY OPION ONE WELL PLACED BLOW THAT WOULD SPLASH BOOD OVER THE OTHER TWO WOULD HAVE SENT THEM ALL RUNNING LIKE ,WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

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• CapeJack 6.18.2009 7:36 am
  "Security" cameras? What are they there for? Obviously they don't deter the punks.

  That scenario is one I would never be in. But if anything similar WERE to happen, I would put my right hand on the grips of a Colt Officers 1911, weak hand on pepper spray and retreat.

  And if they ignored my warning to stay put or retreat, I would draw down on the closest one and fire if he got to within ten feet.

  (Then make sure to take the others out as well.)

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• Andre 6.18.2009 7:55 am
  Tool of Violence?

  Violence was used as a weapon of terror. It subdued his reactions and it prevented the couple from assisting.

  The guy had three chances and he blew them all. Never should have let himself get cornered, couldn't roll with the punch and then tried talking his way out with unreasonable people instead of ground fighting. It seems that he never really understood the danger he was in, even after several kicks to the head. He continually looks amazed, rather than angry.

  People that kick you in the head when you are down mean to kill you – and should be charged with such.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 8:09 am
  This is a perfect example of the use of violence by someone who doesn't care about others. It is also an example of not how to respond to the use of violence. The gentleman was not paying attention to his surroundings and paid for his lack of diligence.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 8:22 am
  The Australian Government took the ability of the private person to defend themselves away. It is against the law to protect yourself from deadly force in Australia.

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• Terry 6.18.2009 9:05 am
  It's NOT about the 'tool of violence' until you've (wrongly) left it too late to do anything else. I like TFT but you guys go from nothing to 'nuclear' without anything in between. Here's what I do and what I train others to do:

  1. It's about 360 degrees radar sweep (y'know, like the warships do at sea) in an obviously dangerous context. You take a 360 degree 'photograph' every thirty seconds, process the information and act accordingly. Simple.
  2. It's about DETERRENCE – the THREAT of violence and NOT the tool of violence (not yet). This is the WAY you MOVE, 'on form', not 'off form'. I've several times swaggered confidently and aggressively on my own through gang members lining both sides of the street here in London at 2 am in the morning – and the only reaction I've every gotten has been 'Wow!' from the 'boyz 'n' their hoods'. Mostly it's silence. They're deterred.

  3. It's always about being proactive, never reactive. If YOU make the decision YOU are in control. The decision is always between fight or flight but you must be the one making it. Immediately you decide, execute your decision instantly with maximum power and speed. Again, simple.

  4. If your decision is FIGHT (i.e. you've failed to pick up the enemy on your radar and/or failed to deter them), then TFT comes into its own BUT NOT UNTIL THEN. Personally I find TFT helpful in terms of targeting (the details) but it's only one part of the bigger pattern I use – and not the most important part. Without utilising my bigger pattern, you limit yourself in dangerous ways. If you must wait until it 'kicks off' to become fully proactive and engaged, you're missing out the CRUCIAL first three steps I've outlined above.

  P.S. I'm still obliged to put my own 'on form' patterns and rhythms to the acid test against some of the most notorious street gangs here in North London on a daily (and nightly) basis. I've been doing it for fifteen years. I'm still here, still doing it. It works. That's the only thing that matters.

  Happy days.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 9:09 am
  The victim had a 'liberal' mindset. That's fatal.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 10:02 am
  It looked like a set-up to me since the victim was talking to one of the 3. If the targeting was correct it should have only taken 2 or 3 seconds for the 'job' to be done. (It is difficult to watch without thinking about what I would do to help instead of how they could have been violent more efficiently.) Once the victim had the ground to help with their sloppy technique their 'techniques' worked.
  Al Hyslip, Newark, Ohio

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• Paul - UK 6.18.2009 10:04 am
  Knocked him down with first punch, then they followed up with about 5 soccer kicks to the head,a couple to the body, a couple missed- job done. Lucky for the victim they was`nt out to kill because they could have done that very easily.

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• Ron - Smyrna GA 6.18.2009 10:23 am
  While I am very new to TFT (about a week worth of watching the videos on the training site), I would have to agree that those doing the violence had poor targeting..but I guess that doesn't matter much, just means the guy lived. I think that the targeting is the meat and potatoes of this training. If there is work to be done, do it quickly and efficeintly..after seeing this, I am really looking forward to the chapters on multiple attackers and fighting from the ground. Thank you Tim and Chris, and the rest for making this information available.

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• NZ Severe 6.18.2009 10:24 am
  He was submissive throughout. He had nothing to lose by attacking his attackers, but tried to talk his way out when he was obviously screwed.

  As soon as they broke away when the witnesses came through he needed to get out of there.

  They showed through their attack that they have no skill at all in fighting. They were testing him and went as far as he let them.

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• David 6.18.2009 10:54 am
  Kicking people in the head works! Walls are solid. Pretty evident.

  One interesting thing I've been thinking about is the initial mental reaction when surrounded by thugs. Or the recognition of an asocial occurrence. It seems the victim went down quickly without being tripped or pushed too hard, which says to me that he might have been weak kneed (who wouldn't?) or overwhelmed mentally at that stage. Recognition of what to do and visualization of actions is a big part of TFT.

  I don't know if I would have escaped, but at least I do know that to focus on getting to perp's outside by rotating through the guy on the left. A plan of action is better than a plan of reaction.

  Keep these coming.

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• Tareq 6.18.2009 11:16 am
  Looking purely at the tool of violence, I agree that the targeting was not efficient. I think to some extent that this was not asocial – the intent was not there and the guys, whilst probably used to acting tough, were not used to fighting and did not go in for the kill first off. As they progressed their contempt for the victim did also, so they kicked him in the head whilst he was down. Importantly they did not seek to finish him off.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 11:29 am
  OK. Re the Australian station attack.
  Three guys line up the victim, flanking and behind, one runs ahead as the other strikes and he is lined up for a donkey kick to the head which effectively neutralises the guy who seems stunned from then on in. The perps have time then to kick in at leisure including the final kick to the temple. It was awful to see the two passers by ignore /misread intentionally or not the situation.

  I can hypothesise as to why that happened.
  From a learning from violence point of view, fairly efficient as a pack hunt though a single strike to the back of the neck would have taken him out from the beginning whic suggests they wanted some interaction before the close out.

  Points to learn the injury frees subsequent targetting.

  From an awareness point of view…the flanking move , the run past from the reactive point of view knee/ankle and groin attacks from the ground on the guy on the right as a start beyond that who knows….however I think he was sufficently stunned from teh donkey kick to have lost coherence anyway…
  Shalom
  Joshua (Jamie)

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 11:30 am
  We need an armed vigilante like the guy from the death wish movies to deal with these type of people.Alot of guys like to play knight in shineing armour to impress the girls,but no one takes action in this type of situation.Where I live in the UK this is a daily occurence,because we don't have the guns to deal with it.

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• Ken Bolland 6.18.2009 12:22 pm
  The scumbags using the tool of violence have some degree of intent, but that's all that can be said for their use of it. There's virtually no body-weight transfer and the targeting is atrocious (how bad do you have to be to MISS a kick to a stationary target?).

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• Aaron 6.18.2009 12:37 pm
  First of all the people that walked by and did nothing astound me, the guy was actually in a position to drive off the attackers, as most of these types of thugs are not your more stalwart types. The victim didn't seem to know to do anything other than rely on some mercy from his assailants, which is a foolish notion, which we should all remember.
  Mountain Home, AR

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• Otto 6.18.2009 1:36 pm
  Poor targeting on the part of the assailants, no attempt by the victim to defend himself with anything but words- a good demonstation of what NOT to do in a fight, by all concerned.

  What about the witnesses??? If they were reluctant to intervene directly- understandable if untrained, and especially with 3 males and a (presumably) untrained woman in the picture- I wonder if they made any attmpt to summon help when out of range?

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• Jon-Columbus, OH 6.18.2009 1:45 pm
  This is another good example of why trying to talk your way out of a violent encounter will not work in today's world. This was methodical and opportunistic on the part of the attackers. They isolated their victim, and even were able to back off when witnesses approached. The victim had an opportunity to attack at the beginning. The attackers' approach and tactic of surrounding the victim made their intent clear. It was an opportunity to for the victim to attack and take out at least one attacker before the other two could strike. You can't pussyfoot around in a fight for your life.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 1:48 pm
  It was a surprise attack by a group immediately around the victim so there was no way to avoid it. It occurred in a public area with surveillance cameras so violence can occur anywhere anytime. They repeatedly attacked the head (lousy targeting, thank goodness) to render him non functional. The police commented on the degree of ferocity involved.The victim still tried to reason with them and could have used the lull in the fighting (when a couple walked by) to launch his own attack (assuming he could still function). He tried to use social skills to diffuse a situation that was way into asocial violence. Lessons? Attacks can occur anywhere anytime. If you attack, attack ferociously and take advantage of surprise. Shut off the brain. Once a fight is on, it is on. It is futile to use social skills at this point. If your attacker backs off and you are still functional, attack targets ferociously.

  Matt A.

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• Matt 6.18.2009 1:55 pm
  Re: the comment that we shouldn't let people come that close. That's nice in theory, but, in reality, if you live in a big city that may not be realistic. The initial attack came from behind. The only way to defend that, IMO, is to be tough enough to fight back from the ground against 3 guys who are willing to kick you in the head. That kind of toughness is rare in today's civilized society, don't you agree?

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• Rick 6.18.2009 1:58 pm
  A near perfect example of the need for training in the art of detached, purposeful and effective violence as a means of self preservation.
  The absence of a response from the victim is noteworthy, despite many opportunities.

  And the casual walk-by of the couple is pretty typical also.

  a graphic lesson in the reality that chicken-shit weasels are out there, and you must be ready to defend without compunction or remorse. NO ONE has an obligation to submit, not to anyone.

  Rick

  Detroit

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• Wayne Chislett 6.18.2009 2:08 pm
  Hard to believe. The only animal on earth, that abuses it own kind like this is the human animal. It proves beyond any doubt, that we need to be aware of the color code of awareness. One must be aware of one's surroundings all the time. And be prepared to protect ones self in a manner consistant and effective with the perpetrators. No doubt in my mind, that in this case. violence would have been the only way to combat this ugly scenario

  Wayne Chislett
  Roatan
  Isle de la Bahia
  Western Caribbean Hn

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 2:29 pm
  The victim's mistake was to enter such a confided area in the first place and to let the 3 men surround him. He may not have been aware of his surroundings, or, just couldn't believe anything like this could happen to him. Postscript: eventually the three men were arrested (http://www.theage.com.au/national/crime-clouds-darken-streets-of-sunshine-20090313-8xy3.html) but I have my doubts that their punishment will fit the crime they committed.

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• OTFL 4 Jah 6.18.2009 2:30 pm
  Sad to see someone fall victim to an event he could have realistically, if trained properly, defeated those scum bags. I think what pisses me off more is that the couple who walked past this event, acted as if they saw nothing. They need to get their ass kicked for their lack of supporting this guy in dire need. You can definitely see that the individuals doing the violence had intent to do violence and you could see they had absolutely no training other than knowing violence works. If the person receiving violence had been trained, as I said before, there would have been a different outcome. He could have easily crushed the testicles, rolled and broke an ankle or knee. He took the defensive social posture to talk his way out and you can see where that got him. He is one of the lucky ones. If anything, this should press us all to train harder, more frequent, and help those who can’t help themselves. I pray these bastards get hammered, but remember; the police can’t protect you, only you can protect you and yours. Tyrone Culley / AR

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 2:45 pm
  The "tool" was the concrete wall. Once the back of his head hit the wall he was knocked out.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 3:01 pm
  The victim obviously had no defense training. All he could do was appeal to the attackers' sense of reason and morality, which didn't exist. It's too bad he couldn't have at least got up and run like hell.

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• Yarrb53 6.18.2009 3:12 pm
  Having worked in the city for 30 years, I have seen violence first hand. You have to check your six and be aware of what is going on around you at all times. Constantley look behind you and study peoples motion. I can tell when someone is gettign ready to attack or a loud boisterous group is looking for someone to screw with, it's like a six sense. If you are paying attentions, you can opt to redirect your path. If they are going to attack, make the first move and do something heinous to the first guy, that will make the others stop and take care of him, then you move off in a hurry.

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• T.J. Gentry 6.18.2009 3:12 pm
  Mr. Larkin:

  Watching this video made me literally sick to my stomach. I am a martial arts veteran of 25 years and also a pastor. The martial artists in me is angry and the pastor in me is saddened. Probably the most notable comment I could make is that none of my training, prior to entry into real world self-defense such as the TFT material, prepared me for such a scenario. Sadly, it appears that much of the confrontation may have been avoided by using the tools you teach.

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• neal 6.18.2009 3:15 pm
  The Australians gave up their guns. They are subjects. Americans are Citizens. Unless we give up our guns. Dont give up your guns. It is better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it. The bad guys will never give up their guns. It is better to be a bad citizen on your feet than a good subject on your knees.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 3:16 pm
  Wise move in Australia to disarm everyone. Works to the criminal advantage every time. This is why Thomas Jefferson said it is the right and duty of Americans to to be at all times armed.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 3:23 pm
  The asailants looked like they were sober and angry. Will TFT train a lone man to encounter three guys like that? Really, what could the victim do but try to keep a healthy distance away from the perps?

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 3:25 pm
  This is more evidence that violence can and does occur and ends in the blink of an eye. It's really hard to defend against surprise attacks, but in the same token, heightening one's awareness of both environment and proximity may have changed the outcome of this confrontation. Thank God tft works even in limited vicinities and multiple opponents. Thanks Tim!

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• T.A.C. 6.18.2009 3:26 pm
  In addition to what I have allready (said regarding this criminal attack….)

  This is a premeditated attack , with intent and you should notice as I, with repeat viewing, that one of the assailants signals a member of his group(gang of thugs)as to when to begin the assault the assault was choreographed from the onset and the individual who signaled his "padner" then uses an appropriate and in my assessment planned and choreographed strike with his shoe(a weapon/tool)…while the targeting may be poor these criminals where following at the core nature many TFT principles….

  That is all.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 3:45 pm
  I saw this on the facebook account as well. As I've watched it again, they were setting that guy up, and they didn't just want his backpack, even though they stole it afterward. They just wanted to beat him.
  Now, the kicks were sloppy and didn't target for anything, but they still got the job done since the guy didn't retaliate at all. The fight was done by the time the guy went down the first time. He was psychologically and emotionally defeated with no intent to fight back. The other guys had every intent to just victimize this guy. Asocial violence.

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• Justin 6.18.2009 3:52 pm
  When the "Warning Graphic Content" came on I was expecting something much worse. I guess I have seen too many TFT videos! HA!
  These guys were just like a pack of wolves going for the easy, smaller prey. Luckily for the victim these guys have no clue what they are doing. Yes- they got the job done but they wasted so much energy to do it. It took three guys to take one smaller guys backpack. Terribly inefficient.
  I do see the use of violence but it is all one-sided. The victim did not even try to get away. He tried to reason with them. This was his biggest mistake. He didn't yell for help in a busy train station. That in itself could have scared them off. It would be better than just sitting there taking it.
  The unfortunate part is now this young man will be scarred for life due to this preventable situation.

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• Mark Richards 6.18.2009 4:18 pm
  This guy should have been aware there were 3 people behind him and spaced himself accordingly in the corridor. He may have been able to put one of the walls to his back and use it for leverage when responding. Certainly, when the one guy ran toward his back he should have responded immediately by flight or fight.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 5:40 pm
  Who's to stop the violence? Is it
  the laws that are too soft for such
  crimes? What about single parent kids who spend most of their day
  playing violent video games and
  viewing gang activity on Utube?
  Studies of the backgrounds of these
  kids would help understand them, and what they where trying to accomplish. More affordable after
  school programs,mandatory trade
  training after Jr high will help
  kids focus on their potential, whatever it may be. Paid programs
  could give kids more hope and the
  possiblility of a bright future.
  As for the incident where is the security? Who is watching the cameras? A simple programmed locking gate on each end could catch the perpertrators from escaping.

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• Rex 6.18.2009 5:56 pm
  This shows one very important thing. You need to be able to stand up for yourself! You can's rely on others to step in to protect. When these thugs attacked, this victom should have stepped right in and disabled the largest attackers mind, and I mean go in for a kill! Pull his eye out of the socket! Break his neck! Doing thi9s might have placed the others in a state of shock, and you use that time to take them down as well, and disable their mind. Violence with violence. You can't pussy foot around. Seconds count!

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 5:59 pm
  I can't understand why he didn't even TRY to defend himself. These guys looked like a bunch of pussies, kicking him like that. I bet if he went ballistic on them and just grabbed one of them, the other two would have ran away.

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• John 6.18.2009 6:00 pm
  Miserable situation. The kid looks like he should have kept his distance in the first place to avoid trouble–but maybe he was being followed; he might have had the option to run. After he was knocked down he made the first mistake: trying to reason with them. It looks like he missed his first opp.: the middle kid's genitals. Very disconcerting to see how the two bystanders just keep walking by rather than trying to intervene or help. You can't count on others.
  It might be interesting to see TFT training try some "situational" practice.

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• jimbthepilot 6.18.2009 6:03 pm
  Looks to me like the 3 BGs were only fairly efficient in their use of the tool of violence – kicks that didn't land, talking, taunting, hesitating. And, there are at least 2 different times when 2 of the BGs seem distracted while the 3rd stands close over the guy on the floor, legs slightly spread, just asking to have his testicles kicked up into his throat or knee broken. Get one BG down on the floor and this would suddenly be a very different fight. Too bad the guy on the floor kept trying to reason with them.

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• Norman 6.18.2009 6:19 pm
  The victim was pretty much screwed the moment he got his back to the wall, which limits his mobility, so that even the less-than-perfect strikes he received were effective enough. But it was the kick by the thug in the white sweater that did the trick, as it was done with full bodyweight moving towards a target. The result was obvious .. knockout!

  In the absence of their conversations, personally I would start striking right after being thrown down (or sooner if I feel threatened).

  I am curious about one thing though, why did these thugs let the couple pass freely? Why not rob, hit, etc. them as well?

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 6:22 pm
  you can tell they where holding back or just careless because they didn't put thier full wheight and structure into thier kicks. Furthermore If he took the initiative then he might have injured a few of them before they got to him.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 6:23 pm
  they r sick bastards eye fore an eye what comes around goes around they will get theirs

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 7:09 pm
  Part of the blame must go to the Australian government for denying the people the tools to defend themselves, but this just proves that criminals will utilize any means at their disposal in order to commit their crimes and that you are the only one that can protect you!

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• Dave 6.18.2009 7:43 pm
  Its disheartening to see him try to reason with his attackers after the attack had started.
  At that point, there is no reason that will satisfy the question 'why'.
  He was caught up in a #$%&storm at that point, and the sooner he acknowledged it within himself, the sooner he might have at least tried to protect himself.
  Interesting to note that even though there are 3 of them, their 'technique' is clumsy at best.
  They rely on their numbers to get the job done.
  It shows that if he had managed to get his feet under him and injure one of them, they may have backed off, or at least have hesitated a little before each attack, allowing further injury to be dealt.
  The list of injuries to him is long, but he is lucky that that is all that happened. At the beginning of the setup, you can see what looks like one of the animals pulling something out of his pocket .. that could very easily have been some sort of edged instrument.
  Be polite, but firm, maintain your distance, watch their hands.
  -Dave.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 8:08 pm
  Obviously the person getting beat up was intimidated by the number and size of the attackers. If he were TFT trained his immediate focus would be to attack the targets surrounding him, like the knees, groins etc. The more attackers the more targets. A chemical attack with pepper spray probably would work on these perps also.

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• DogMaster 6.18.2009 10:12 pm
  Australians are angry that their gun rights are gone. I know many, and they are also worried about the rapid rise in violent crime and no way to protect themselves or their loved ones.
  I hope we NEVER have to face that loss.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 10:23 pm
  It's a tough situation being attacked by a group. The first thought should be to fight. Hurt the biggest one first and hurt him badly. An eye rake or staight punch to the throat will give a good result. Stay out of the centre of any group conflict and use lethal targets at all times. Think of nothing but hitting known targets.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 11:37 pm
  This film highlights the need to be able to defend yourself from whatever position you happen to be in. This man was blind-sided so, for him, the fight started with him on the ground. This is one of the principles TFT trains and this film shows the importance of that principle.

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• Anonymous 6.18.2009 11:48 pm
  i live in ny you learn to have eyes in the back of your head. he should not have kept walking . 3 against 1 (not armed) you run back to open public area or foward to public maybe someone with the heart will help you . if not you never go down with out a fight like he did (not to blame him he was not that old to know better). you need to make alot of noise it just gos to show how much you need to know how to defend yourself and your family. it make me think more about TFT Group.

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• MadMIAguy 6.19.2009 12:08 am
  Its about cause and effect. His senses should have been tingling but he did not listen and paid for it.
  I was taught as young street kid to keep your radar on at all times. One other point he has no obvious street/MA training. I prefer being the cause.

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• pcfrmr 6.19.2009 1:27 am
  death is too good for these miscredents. the world cannot afford this kind of people. death would suffice.

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• Anonymous 6.19.2009 1:38 am
  The cop narrating this attack apparently grew watching Disney movies where no one really gets hurt. He has no rage or disgust with this outrageous attack. This is what happens when the government is allowed to disarm the citizens. The law of the jungle takes over and law enforcement takes on the easy targets (traffic violations) and ignores the safety and dignity of the common man. Violent criminal speak and understand one language and it's violence. They only respect and fear those who might respond violently to their attacks. There is a name for those who can't or are not allowed to defend themselves and the name is VICTIM. Citizens of Austrailians band together and demand the right to defend your home, your loved ones, and your life. Take your country back from the Socialists, who won't venture out without their bodyguards, but don't mind feeding you to the wolves they have created with their permissive laws and entitlement mentality. An armed citizen is a free citizen, free from fear of attacks like this one and fear of the knock on their door in the middle of the night by the National Socialist Police. Read the history of Nazi Germany and see if you don't see parallels in your own government. Take your country back before you end up in a gulag for your own "safety".

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• Anonymous 6.19.2009 3:56 am
  An effective use of violence. Smother and swarm an isolated subject. But they shouldn't have let up when he was down, and they shoudln't have brought their faces so close to him.

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• GTC 6.19.2009 4:29 am
  Wow, Terry nice! congrats. Radar sweep, sure very important. I did not quite understand why you should, as you said "swaggered confidently and aggressively" Won't this convey the message "hey guys- I am confident I can handle you guys anytime. Of course if you are massively built and professionally trained, that is a different story. But you may attract an attack with some weapon as you are behaving dominantly in their territory without provocation. This may seem insulting. Thank you for your inputs. take care. Thiagan

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• k.michael 6.19.2009 6:08 am
  kmichael says:
  a great deal of my spiritual training regards "this very body, this very lifetime" as a supreme gift- an extraordinary opportunity and blessing on so many levels of Being- this means you also have a supreme responsibility in cultivating and furthering the possibilities of a heart-value oriented life. simply put, any resourcefulness that furthers a precious life of valuing endeavor is to be condoned- so it seems simple to me that there is at times a stark necessity/ reality to use violence as a tool. i have taken one training at tft-i hope to do more. keep up the good work..

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• panther hechicera 6.19.2009 8:21 am
  This was only possible because the victim could not or did not for whatever reason, defend himself or fight back! also disgusting that onlookers do nothing. we know they did not call the cops as the attackers would have been caught by time of news cast.

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• Panther Hechicera 6.19.2009 8:27 am
  The only reason this was possible is because the victim for whatever reason could not or did not defend himself or fight back. also disgusting , that onlookers do nothing.

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• Anonymous 6.19.2009 6:56 pm
  In the world of violence the whole scenario could have easily been the opposite of what we have observed. For example the attackers in this case assumed they had the upper hand and were overconfident (probably after ganging up on and bullying many others in the past). Substitute the kid that was beat up in the video with another kid who had previously suffered such beat downs and is now carrying a knife. After being thrown to the floor a rage takes over and he goes ballistic with the knife going for the jugulars, the eyes etc. Depending on the area the kid would either be tried for murder or it would be a case of self defense but given the trend it would probably be the former. Which brings up the case for using any kind of weapon that is short of being lethal such as chemical sprays, electrical stunners, phasers on stun etc. While it may be better to be tried by twelve than being carried by twelve, it still sucks. So if one is prepared to go ballistic and medieval on someone one should make the effort to carry and use such weapons where possible depending on the circumstances. The TFT concept still applies in that one is targeting the eyes, throat etc but using a tool like pepper sprays instead of cold steel, firearms and body weapons.

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• Troy Butler Anchorage Alaska 6.19.2009 8:30 pm
  My heart goes out to the young man and his family i am very sorry he had to go throught this experience. On the other hand the 3 big men who attacked this young man for nothing more than just pure violence, it just goes to show how empathy and compassion have not been instilled in their upbringing which is to bad because more than likely they will be dead before age 25. Troy Butler Alaska P.S THEY'RE LUCKY IT WASN'T ME!!!!

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• jm 6.19.2009 9:49 pm
  Let me stir the pot and flip the scenario for my fellow commentators:

  1) You're not the victim. Quitting siding with him. Quitting living vicariously and empathetically through his beating.

  2) You *are* the actor. The cause. Period.

  With that in mind, I learned this:
  a) Don't pause, stand back and evaluate whether *that* strike was the finishing blow.
  (Rationale: too many of you commented on the time lapse between blows, I don't want you to have the opportunity to consider a reaction.)
  b) A fast strike is (literally) nothing compared to a strong, accurately targeted strike. While adrenaline will negatively affect my targeting and amp my speed, *think slow*.
  c) I will not turn my back and walk away until the situation is resolved according to my satisfaction.
  I need breathing to cease, ambulatory function to fail, CNS destruction. The actors/forces of causation failed to accomplish any of those goals.

  jmf

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• Anonymous 6.19.2009 10:09 pm
  Some thoughts as I viewed this video:

  1) The victim was woefully unaware of his surroundings. One with awareness would not be walking with three strangers in such a narrow, dimly lit corridor.

  2) The perps were not at all concerned about what the victim would do, or about how they would defend themselves against him, just as TFT explains. They were not skilled fighters. They were wide open for either a first or counter strike, and a first strike that injured any one of them would have probably scattered the other two.

  3) One would not need a gun against these three bums. Testicles and knees, then throats and eyes were available to the victim up to the moment he was knocked out.

  4) On a side note, civilized, western men had best realize that the savages among them need to be put down, and then find the will to do so.

  Mike phrom Philly

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• Anonymous 6.20.2009 1:22 am
  The guy obviously was outnumbered and from the sound of it did not know his attackers. If he had been more aware of his surroundings he could have possibly avoided the situation.

  A good example of asocial behavior vs. anti-social behavior. The victim tries to talk to his attackers and clearly this does nothing to improve his situation.

  His position against the wall only makes their strikes more brutal, similar to your demonstration w/ a victim who is on the ground.

  As others have noted, many targets were easily available if the victim had chosen to act to defend himself. Most obvious to me were the groin, and ankles.

  Shame on those two people who did nothing to help the victim who was so obviously outnumbered. I hope that if that were me, I would not be afraid to do what is right and help that guy. Unless actually tested, I'm not sure that anyone can say w/ absolute certainty what they would do. Fear is a very crippling emotion.

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• T.A.C. 6.20.2009 3:01 am
  Kudos to "RON THE HUN" and a personal hearty thank you for the deep laughter I emitted reading your post where you described how you would "handle" the "situation
  ". Friend I need to YELL at YOU…"BLOODBORNPATHOGENS"….
  So how about instead of eating the eyeball you serve it up as a cold dish to assailant number three if he is not allready capitulating or running in fear from your appropriate combat attitude…My brother once force fed fish eggs to an adversary. I doubt it would be much more difficult to do so with a human eyeball.

  Thank you again for your commentary.

  Anonymous made a statement that the perps/three stooges didn't feel the need to finish the job.

  I strongly disagree and recommend that anonymous watch the footage again.

  The victim is unconscious and targets are still being attacked while he is obviously incapacitated.Also note that when he is incapacitated and these targets are being struck his central nervous system is eliciting nil response to the trauma when the assailants left the man we was unconscious/ incapaciated had suffered a serious head injury and as far as they where concered they had finished the job. As I stated before he could very likly have died from any number of the attacks he endured. I also did not see the assailants check his breathing nor pulse after liberating his rucksack from him. Any Competant District Attourney could successfully prosecute an attemted homicide charge and quite possibly conspiracy and many other serious charges you get the gyst…especially if the assailants where only defended by the likly which would be a public defender…

  They had intent, it was certainly premeditated, it was gang activity and activity to benefit a gang, it was robbery, aggravated assault and attempted murder.NUFF SAID.

  Anoymous #2 said

  "3 on 1… This Guy had no chance…And I dont't believe TFT would have helped…"

  I have only this to say.

  BULLPIE.

  Also with regard to the couple who walked by and did nothing. I did not see the victim cry out for help and the assailants adapted to the situation and adopted a relaxed posture only when the couple had passed did the conflict resume and the assailants became more brazen and aggresive.

  Another note that NEEDS to be addressed. Continually calling these criminal assailants cowards is all fine and well and good. It gives you that warm fuzzy feeling in your tummy dont it. Your missing the TFT point and in my assesment you need to hit the books , dvds and mats more.Study your TFT more, PERIOD. These assailants attacked in a "clean well lighted place" a brazen attack with potential witnesses and in full view of surveillance cameras…calling them cowards is naive and ignorant…and if you have this idea that when "violence is the only answer…" that you likly will be facing an asocial "coward" you are doing yourself and TFT a grave disservice.

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• Anonymous 6.20.2009 4:05 am
  While I didn't read all the comments the ones I did focused on techniques and targeting. How about what was going on before these three scumbags attacked. They approached the victim, most likely because he was A VICTIM before any contact was made. The attackers engaged the victim in conversation until they had him alone and off-guard. Being alone may be unavoidable-being off guard is unacceptable…unless you're a practicing victim. If you're a practicing victim then nothing is going to help you. I could have walked by those robbers 50 times and they would not have bothered me. Not because I'm a tough guy, not because I look mean or big. They would have sensed that I'm NOT THE ONE. TFT may be a good vehicle to change someone from victim to non-victim, but most victims are not drawn to learning how to protect themselves or they wouldn't be victims in the first place.

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• Terry 6.20.2009 11:15 am
  GTC,
  Thanks for the compliment. My use of the word 'aggressive' was probably misleading. I don't make eye contact and don't say anything. I just focus on driving my whole body forward with rhythmic rotation, perfectly centered, knees slightly bent, using my thigh, calf, ankle and foot musculature and structures to move fluidly and in perfect balance. I do this all the time, even when walking to the shops. Call it TFT leg dynamics in motion if you like, although I was doing it long before I'd heard of TFT. All highly trained MA guys walk this way. It deters most would-be predators (not all) most of the time.

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• Aussie TFT Girl 6.20.2009 12:36 pm
  We don't want or need guns here – think about it, if the victim could be armed so would the perps. Nor do we want your annual gun death toll. Being armed with a weapon is of no use if you can't get to it/are too injured to deploy it.

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• Dan 6.20.2009 1:07 pm
  I've just read your email wolves sheep sheepdogs.The leader of this attack is a wolf the other 2 are sheep,so sheep are not harmless as your email suggests.Sociopaths are rare but they do have alot of allies because of their social skills.The leader of this attack could be a sociopath,but you could'nt have 2 in a group as they would both want leadership.So prepare to defend your self from wolf and sheep alike,you don't believe the sheep are dangerous?Look what they do when following a hitler or stalin or in the case of this video just a petty urban thug.

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• Anonymous 6.20.2009 2:46 pm
  Tool of violence? One party used it, not very well. One party didn't, at all. We know how that ended.

  I don't blame the male passerby for not intervening. He was protecting his girlfriend's safety, which he would have risked if he had taken on all three goons. One of them might have taken his girlfriend 'hostage' while he was engaged with the other two. Don't blame him. He was protecting his girlfriend. I would have done the same.

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• Anonymous 6.20.2009 3:28 pm
  The vic was comfortable with his companions the way conversation was going on but his buddies with they way of the attack appear to be exacting a "hit" of sorts for somebody. Having been in similiar situations with good and bad outcomes, the bad ones with my ass being kicked but, some of the guys left knowing they had been in a scrap. My dad, who was a frogman in the Navy said,"never go down without a fight, you show the enemy weakness for the next time if there is one".
  Now I'm older and don't do any fighting now, I still see situations like this all the time and wonder how can people have their guard down so much.

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• Remington Cain 6.20.2009 10:19 pm
  Hello Tim-the video is solid evidence of what has become the so-called norm in todays society;individual citizens being assaulted by roaming thugs looking for easy prey that will do nothing but laydown like sheep amongst wolves and allow them to do as they please to them. This is a perfect example of how TFT could be used and used very effectively; the assailants did what they did because the man being assaulted made it very apparant that he would offer up no resistance, therefore giving the assilants even more willingness to do as they pleased, and you can tell they are enjoying what they are doing more and more with each strike given; they continue to kick him after he has been rendered unconcious! My money says that had he went all out with a eye gouge, a throat strike, a knee breaking kick, and followed up each effort with another, these sadists would have ran or better yet crawled away, and he would have recieved little or no injury as opossed to the head and body injuries, as well as to the certain psycological damage that will stay with him for the rest of his life. Something else that is extremely troubling is the utter lack of the two witnesses that did absolutly nothing while this event happened, either from lack of concern, nut more likely fear for their own safety; this I am sure gave the attackers even more of a power trip seeing two more "sheep" walking away in fear of them. This proves exactly the majority mindset of the average person when faced with any type of criminal threat that has zero problem in using asocial violence to strike fear and injury into the hearts of average citizens. As a footnote, the vidoeo also proves that scum like this have no training whatsoever as they use violence to achieve their means; their strikes are not well placed in the least, and it took an absurd amount of blows to finaly achieve a knock out-by three assailants on one who offered no resistance-it makes me sadened and sick to see and know what our society has watere itself down to. Please keep up the good and very life saving work with TFT!

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• NZ Severe 6.21.2009 4:38 am
  …as for teh comments on the couple who entered and walked on:
  Why should they stop?
  They are at risk too.
  One male and his partner…

  You can't expect strangers to help you out in times of crisis. You have to be able to control your own timeline.

  Waiting for someone to help you out is futile. we already know that society tunes out. He could have used the distraction they provided to run. Society wants help, but will not offer any. The indifference of the city.

  He made his own decisions. To stay put. I have helped strangers and the first thing they have all done is run once the attention is off them which left me in the fire.
  I had the training, ut what can you expect of the untrained?

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• GTC 6.22.2009 4:43 am
  Hi Guys, Sure I agree that these 3 criminals had got this guy exactly where they wanted him. Unfortunately this guy was totally unaware of what was happening in his 360 degree scan area. Hope he will be after such a painful lesson, a lesson not only for him, who probably never heard of TFT but also for everyone of us. Because I am sure everyone of us too cannot be on full alert status every time. Some one said even TFT could not have helped the victim. But I am sure that, if a person is interested in TFT, he will be aware of all aspects of his surroundings and could easily have taken out the leader, which would have greatly destabilized the equilibrium of the other two who most probably would have run off, if their leader was seriously injured and on the ground. Conclusion? TFT would certainly have helped. Thanks Tim and Team.

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• Pete 6.22.2009 7:25 pm
  It's too bad that guy didn't realize his position on the ground put him in the perfect spot to rupture their testicles.

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• Len 6.23.2009 9:57 pm
  Tim,

  I think the critical 5 seconds were between seconds 8-12.

  You cannot see the front perp's hands, but you can see his feet. The perp directly behind our unfortunate victim is reaching for victim's back pocket (robbery?)and looking at the feet of the front perp, looks like a grab for victim, as he feels the pull at his back pocket his body is pulled to face the front and rear right perps, allowing the perp that was behind left to get infront, setting up the first head kick (after front perps pushed the victim to the ground).

  Was this first strike enough to stun victim into inaction for the next critical 6-7 seconds before the next head blows come?
  (Alot has already been said about this space of time between the first head kick and the next, and what the victim could and should have done, so no need to go there.)

  Reviewing the knock down and first kick, the big perp at the back blocks the view of what the front perp did (as the victim spun) and exactly what the strike was that sent the victim to the ground.

  Was that first strike a "target-focused" strike, that caused the victim to reflex? I do not think so, and even the second strike (first head kick) seemed to be a flat footed (little power and form) mule kick, though enough to cause the back of victims head to strike the wall behind. (Perps appear to all be wearing running shoes – the guy would probably be dead otherwise).

  There was no reflexive action of victim holding his head or even arms or torso,(from possible damage from first strike).

  During seconds 13 – 18 it is agonizing to watch. Lots of possible actions could have occured during this time as many have discussed.

  Equally agonizing to watch seconds 45-and on. The pause in the attack as the two passers-by moved past gave some recovery to the victim, and again lots of possible actions could have occured.

  Thanks for sharing this clip Tim! It shows how quickly things can happen, and shows a gang set-up of a victim. The presence of mind to make the decision to ACT at seconds 9, 10, 11, 12, (dispite being set-up by a gang) is what your training strives to teach, first recognize, then execute.

  Finding oneself in seconds 13-18 is another set of training, to "regain" presence of mind, and then execute. Same during and just after the passers by, to recognize and gain advantage of the situation.

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• Ymarsakar 6.24.2009 1:31 am
  That last kick to the head for that nice head bounce was a good concussion possibility.

  There was nothing interdicting it, and it had a pretty good speed and run up following behind the actual kick.

  Then again, an immobile target is a pretty much dead target. The Romans eventually learned that against the Parthians and Persian deghans.

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• Anonymous 6.24.2009 2:41 pm
  A lot of armchair quarterbacking on this subject. With that said, my humble opinion is of the sort with the vic on the ground he has placement for nutshots, sweeping knees, possibly an all out run back the way he came. But, if fear took over or this guy did not have the fight in him is hard to say. Whatever the reason for the assault is, he got an ass-whipping he won't forget and hopefully a lesson was learned to get some training in the art of fighting.

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• GBGlock 6.25.2009 4:40 pm
  Obvious that they were not real fighters as they knocked the guy down and kept him down by kicking him. He should have immediately created distance to get up and run yelling for help or defend himself.
  This is all recorded and in the subject country they would only consider the bad guys as wayward youth or hooligans not considering the fact that the bad guys did not care one bit if they killed the victim. I would either get away or create my damage outside of camera view and I would not care if I did permanent damage or worse.
  That kind of kicking puts them off balance and gives me many options to topple one or all. It was truly disgusting to see people walk by without at least yelling for help.

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• Anonymous 6.25.2009 11:45 pm
  I travel all the time and intentionally avoid areas like this Australian Railway Station. I wouldn't be suprised if this guy suffered permanent injuries. It just proves what Tim, Chris and everyone else at TFT has been saying. Never put yourself at the mercy of the assailant. They have none.

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• Johny 6.27.2009 8:10 am
  Summed up in a nutshell – in violence there is always 'one' person doing the injuring, and 'one' person getting injured.

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• Chris Ranck-Buhr 7.1.2009 6:07 pm
  This is a very instructional video, as it not only contains all the base principles of violence in action, but also a whole barrel full of red herrings.

  Most of what I'd say about that can be found two blog posts down in Preventing Violence vs. Doing Violence:

  http://www.targetfocustraining.com/blog/2009/04/preventing-violence-vs-doing-violence.html

  The gist being that we view violence through our own personal filters, most commonly empathizing with the victim and trying to figure out what we, as the victim, would do differently.

  It's like trying to learn how to win at football by only paying attention to what losing teams do.

  As counterintuitive, painful, and morally troubling as it is, you have to look at what the winners do and see yourself as a person who does violence. Everything else is you practicing to be a victim.

  This doesn't mean that you condone criminal behavior or think it's 'cool' — I sure don't — it just means you're going to focus on what is demonstrably effective instead of 'shoulda-woulda-coulda.'

  This video clearly shows that:

  - Manipulating social expectations can get you into a position to strike,

  - From the point of the first injury, violence is completely one-sided,

  - It's easiest to kick or stomp a downed man, and

  - All injury is ultimately aimed at shutting off the brain.

  The next step is to look for ways to improve the process: What mistakes did the winners make? How could they have done the work of violence more efficiently? This is where conjecture actually informs your learning.

  I'm not being flip, blasé or mocking the victim — it's just that the one thing that hamstrings us (sane, law-abiding people) is the fact that we empathize with the victim and try to figure out what to do in violence by looking at the person getting worked instead of the person doing the work.

  It's not a comfortable or easy adjustment, but once you make the switch — tracking your eyes upward off the guy on the ground and onto the guy who's standing — violence becomes simple mechanics, physics and physiology meeting badly.

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• GTC 7.2.2009 4:10 am
  Chris Ranck-Buhr
  Wow! Chris you must be a very precise, very learned individual. How true, how focused. Thank you very much for your comments and directing all of us to the blog on preventing Vs doing violence. One problem is that in normal life 99 percent of the time most of us do not face such asocial criminals, hence the general focus on prevention. On the other hand it is essential that we are very clearly aware that the 99% of circumstances we face in normal life very rarely has the potential of killing you, while the 1% or less chance that we meet up with a really deranged asocial could kill us. Hence it is vital that we know this fact and are prepared. Thanks again Chris. Keep in touch. Your contribution can save a life.

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• Chris Ranck-Buhr 7.2.2009 7:02 pm
  GTC,

  I take your point on preventing violence, and I'd say the problem is what, exactly, people are interested in preventing. Most training has you practicing to not get hit or otherwise attempt to interrupt the other person doing violence, which really doesn't jibe with reality. The most glaring contradiction comes with classic 'knife defense' — if you watch videos of stabbings you can see there's never any face-off or back-and-forth dance. It's just one person stabbing and one person getting stabbed. Most victims of such violence report never even seeing the knife; they thought they were being punched. The only realistic way to train for this is to train to cause injury, to be the person doing the violence. (This has borne out in real life — long story short, TFT instructor finds out it's on when he gets stabbed from behind (thought he got punched) and the first thing he does is drop the guy. Happy end of story.)

  If, instead, we're talking about preventing the violence from even beginning, I whole-heartedly agree. You should go out of your way to not be involved, do whatever you can to de-escalate, disengage, or just plain not be there. When you have the choice, the answer is always no.

  I figured this was all common sense. Turns out it isn't.

  The problem is looking at what we do as 'fighting.' It's more correct to look at it the same way as firearms training. If you think about it, the vast majority of firearms owners will never shoot a man to death, and yet they are willing to expend time and money preparing for that moment. As you note, true asocial violence is a rare enough event that you'll very likely never encounter it. Preparation in this regard is a life insurance policy, like knowing how to swim should we ever need to do so to keep from drowning.

  This is really just a long-winded way of saying prevention only works on what's truly preventable — and that's all the front-loaded crap before things come to blows. Once that physical plane's been breached you don't get to choose whether or not you get punched, kicked, stabbed, or shot. If we could pick, we'd all say no, thank you. And I'd spend time training people to keep those things from happening. But again, reality shows that's not the case. The only choice you have in that moment is whether you're the person doing the violence or the one getting done.

  Trying to prevent violence once it's started is like trying to prevent having been shot. Ain't gonna happen.

  Your best bet in that moment is to return fire.

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• GTC 7.3.2009 2:40 am
  Hi Chris,
  Thank you very much for that. I just saw that you are a senior TFT trainer. All one could say for all the highly relevant comments you have made is amen! Having said that, I would like many readers I am sure agree, get to the core issue involved in these discussions. As you may have gathered, I am a 66 year old, comparatively pretty fit bat:-) All my son's airline crew members who have met had I understand made a commitment that when they are 60+ years they should be at least half as fit as I am, well that's somewhat encouraging too. But my major interest in this topic is due to the fact that I actually hate bullies who pick on defenseless absolutely innocent persons to positively reinforce their asocial behaviour, probably originating from their own abused childhood. One has to be totally aware of the situation one is in.
  I also try to apply a technique known as a 'soft drop' used a long time ago by American Special Forces, where an intelligent assessment is made of an enemy location without any possible way that 'enemy' could be aware that he is being assessed and his behaviour recorded. I believe if anyone suddenly perpetrates some asocial violence, on you or your loved ones, your 'soft drop' on the situation you were in was defective and inadequate, (as Terry had stated the 360 deg. scan was not effective, as the radar signature of the asocial person was too small to be picked up). This is where the problem should be focused on. We must watch manner of speech, body language, tone of voice, rhythm of speech, eye contact time and manner as well as violations of territorial limits common in any genteel society. Only then can one have more than the critical 5 seconds to act in. On the other hand if we are suddenly pounced upon (which I still believe is highly unlikely if one is really aware of his surroundings) then only a rapid, trained, massively incapacitating injury could save you and your loved one's. Hey Chris, I love your professional and aware comments. I would really appreciate a detailed critique of my comments. Thank you very much to you and Tim, for the absolutely great work, so very sad but vital in this day and age. Take care guys. Thank you:-)

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• Terry 7.7.2009 7:28 pm
  Chris,

  Where do we start? You (TFT) start when it all kicks off. I start immediately I hit the street, with GTC's 'soft drop' 360 degree radar (and audio) sweep of my surroundings every thirty seconds. If it's good enough for the American Special Forces…

  And I don't stop there. I use DETERRENCE (not 'prevention') as a critical further tool in the pre-violence stage. This is NOT bravado in the sense you have caricatured it on many occasions in your newsletters. Instead it is a completely controlled physical and mental rhythm and pattern that is understated but potent. I don't need to say anything or even look at anyone. It's all about me, focused, 'locked down', confident – leg dynamics in motion if you will!

  In this situation, if it all kicks off, I'm never caught cold (as at least one TFT instructor has been) because I'm already fully warmed up, ready to explode (pre-emptively if I so decide) into and through anyone who launches, or is about to launch, a direct physical attack on me or mine.

  The start determines the end.

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• Chris Ranck-Buhr 7.8.2009 6:23 pm
  Terry,

  In training terms, we start at the point of first injury. What has happened before that doesn't matter.

  As you note, quiet confidence is very different from — and more effective than — bravado. Bravado is a caricature of confidence, it scares off the people you didn't need to worry about in the first place and can actually attract the worst among us.

  But even that deterrent confidence can fail us. When people are looking for other humans to prey upon, they'll pass over those exuding that confidence since they're not usually spoiling for a hard fight but for easy pickings. They want someone behaving like a prey animal… just like any one of us would if we were sick, feeling like crap, depressed or preoccupied. People won't pick us when we're ready. Violence is going to come to us literally when we least expect it — and we're least prepared.

  Of course, from your post it sounds like you've already got all this sorted out. Keep up the good work!

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• Terry 7.9.2009 8:06 am
  Many thanks, Chris, for your unflinching reply.

  It's this honesty on your part that gives TFT its credibility, not just with me but with all those lucky enough to have encountered a system that really does add a whole new (scientific) dimension to effective self-offence.

  I'm just about to order your Throwing DVD set.

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• Chris Ranck-Buhr 7.9.2009 6:14 pm
  Terry,

  Somewhere in the series of tubes that is teh Interwebs your following comment got lost. I'm reposting it here so I can address your points:

  Terry wrote:

  "Chris,

  "I find your anti-social/asocial paradigm very problematic. Take the video in question. Was that anti-social or asocial violence? The gang didn't want to kill their victim. If they had they would have acted totally differently – with ten or a dozen kicks and stomps to the head instead of just a couple."

  The antisocial/asocial pradigm is clearest at the extremes, say, when comparing the bar fight over a perceived slight against an attempted murder. It gets admittedly fuzzy as you move from those extremes toward the center. A bar fight can turn into an attempted murder just as what looks like a life-or-death situation can be simple aggression. The closer these two poles get the more it becomes a judgment call on the part of the individual who feels threatened.

  I always assumed that the difference between 'fighting' and 'killing' was clear and understood by all — my first mistake. The antisocial/asocial discussion came out of a very challenging course we taught in Dallas where everyone was coming at the material like it was for casual play-fighting or some kind of super-badass bar skill. We drew the line so people could get their heads screwed on straight and put the information in the proper context: violence, the way we train it, is appropriate for any situation where you'd need to shoot a person to death if you had a gun. We just show you how to do it without the firearm.

  The sole purpose in presenting this video is to illustrate what works in violence. The three men put the tool to good use (though there are many places they could improve). As I've stated before, our problem as sane, socialized people is that we empathize with the victim and try to work solutions from his situation. This is a trap. If we're going to be effective at using violence we have to look at those who 'win.' This isn't easy, trivial, or comfortable… but empathizing with the victim and trying to train from his perspective means we're always going to be a half-step behind, and we're training to behave like desperate prey animals instead of predators.

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• Chris Ranck-Buhr 7.9.2009 6:14 pm
  Terry wrote:

  "This video shows anti-social violence of the kind that happens routinely each weekend here in London. Now let's suppose the victim had been a TFT mastery student and used his intensive TFT training in this situation.

  "He would have downed the tall goon with, say, a perfectly targeted strike to the genitals and an immediate forearm smash to the side of the neck. The other two goons would have turned and legged it as this was happening. The tall goon would be down but by no means out. What to do?

  "TFT teaches that you must not stop until you leave the other guy dysfunctional. So, your mastery student dutifully does a double knee drop to the downed man's internal organs, with a forearm smash to the throat for good measure and (perhaps) one or two base leverage breaks of arms, wrists or legs. Job done.

  "The cops run the tape and your TFT mastery student ends up in court on a charge of using grossly disproportionate force against a man who was already on the ground injured.

  "You see my problem with TFT. It's dangerous – for those who practice it. I have a solution.

  "Later."

  I've trained people who have used this skill in the most dire of circumstances — guns, knives, multiman, and at least one premeditated attempted murder. In every case they survived — and won — without having to kill the people who came after them. They could have, and would probably have been cleared given the situation, but they didn't. That's because they achieved, and recognized, nonfunctional before they got to killing.

  'Nonfunctional' means simply that you're comfortable turning your back on the man and walking away. This can mean different things for different people depending on the situation. For some it's simple unconsciousness, for others it's the person visibly quitting, being preoccupied with his injuries and behaving like an injured person. We leave this as a judgment call for each individual.

  We train people to injure people. More importantly, we train people how to recognize success, and what to do with it. Each injury is a choice based on what they recognize they achieved, and what they want beyond that. We're also very clear on which injuries tend to be life-threatening — giving the practicioner the ability to change their target a few inches to get the clavicle instead of the throat. Or vice-versa.

  Most of the time it's over so quickly — nonfunctional status achieved and recognized — that the person chose to stop before inflicting needless harm. In other words, recognizing that they didn't need to stomp on his throat or break his neck because the man was no longer a threat.

  In the end, unrestrained violence is only appropriate any time you'd find it appropriate to pull a gun and shoot to kill. If that's not the case, I recommend you go out of your way to avoid the situation. Unlike a firearm, using your body to cause injury gives you a lot of flexibility in the type and severity of those injuries.

  For anyone who's interested in training to go physical with the antisocial — for submission, control, or 'fighting' — there are many training options out there. Just remember that you do what you train, so it can be difficult to switch it up in a true life-or-death situation. Also remember the risk you're taking when you choose to engage when it's 'merely antisocial' — most of the time people don't die in such situations, but it can happen. You can accidentally kill someone. And accidentally be killed.

  The antisocial/asocial paradigm gives us a rough guideline to understand the avoidable vs. the unavoidable, and how to operate in each. Given that, our physical training is for breaking the human machine in the most extreme ways possible, and yet, our methodology is so thorough that in practice our clients have shown great restraint. Restraint that is only possible when you combine a willingness to truly injure the other person with a complete understanding of precisely what each injury will do.

  Thanks for your comments, and I hope this helps.

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• Terry 7.9.2009 7:10 pm
  Chris,

  Thank you very much indeed for taking the time and trouble to illuminate so brilliantly the particular points I raised.

  Your detailed answer serves to make the TFT position on these matters much clearer in terms of theory and actual practice for those of us unable to attend the regular San Diego Mastery sessions.

  I'm a very satisfied customer!

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• Anonymous 7.14.2009 3:52 am
  I am from New Zealand and have worked in and around Melbourne as a bouncer full time for nearly 11years. I have also worked in the area where this young man was attacked. The area and train station where this young man was attacked is one of the worst areas in Melbourne and Australia mind you for crime and assaults known as Sunshine. Sunshine or Scamshine as a lot of people and us guys in the crowd control industry ref fur to it as. It has a high number of refugees from Somalia and suddan and Africa and also other country's and a lot of junkies and high unemployment. Bashing's robbery and crime a cur every day in Scamshine. The one thing I've noticed since being in Australia since 1996 is that more and more people or cowards as I call them are attacking in groups or use anything that they can get their hands on as a weapon they all so like to attack soft targets. You guys are can voice your opinions all you like on what the young guy that got bashed should have or could have done but the bottom line is that the guy is not a fighter and was a soft target with no street or concrete jungle experience I also have no doubt in my mind after dealing with masses of young punks like the ones that bashed the young guy at Scamshine railway station that even if he could have done something to defend himself he would have been stabbed because they like to carry knives or sharpened belt buckles and what have you as I now what they are like. That's the bottom line every one handles things differently man. Some people get hit and nut off and don't feel much like myself and then there's the majority that get hit on the chin or hit in general and turn to water. Not every one has trained in Krav Maga like I have or target focus training like you guys have. They are just every day people that go about their business never thinking it will not happen to them. Unfortunately sometimes it does. I have worked with a couple of yanks that have bounced in las angelas and they cant believe how crazy the people are over here compared to where they are from. Anyway that's not the point that young guy has been one of many in Sunshine and unfortunately wont be the last. My philosophy is this just because you train or know how to look after yourself always remember there always people bigger stronger or more psycho then then you or me for that matter or there are just too many of them. I've seen people that have trained for years in doing this and doing that have been bashed or stabbed by guys that haven't done any training at all and I never forget that. Paul(#12) of Melbourne

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• Chris Ranck-Buhr 7.15.2009 12:06 am
  Paul wrote:

  I've seen people that have trained for years in doing this and doing that have been bashed or stabbed by guys that haven't done any training at all and I never forget that.

  This is hard-won wisdom that colors pretty much everything I do as a practitioner and instructor. Thanks for pointing that out.

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• GTC 7.15.2009 4:23 am
  Hi Guys, thanks Anon (Melbourne), Paul and Chris, sure there is heaps of wisdom and food for thought in your learned comments. But (there is always a but:-) on the very rare occasion one gets into such an unfortunate situation, and I believe that getting into such a situation in the first place was due to a lack of 'due diligence', at this point one is compelled to act. Unfortunately it may not help. Options? We can hand over all we have, beg, scream etc., etc., but many of us in this forum just cannot do that, can we?(I would love to make the other guy scream, I know shocking, such a statement from a saintly and peaceful looking guy like me:-) So what's next? I would say massively damage the leader to a state of total dysfunction and act (remember only act) berserk,while coldly, calculatingly taking out the most immediate danger with a sharp eye for knives, guns and opportunity to get to a more crowded and safer place. Nice in theory but is it practical? what choice has one got. Let's pray we don't find ourselves in such a situ. Well praying in advance has certainly worked for me. Did I hear somebody scream?

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