This is an old video of a brutal attack in an Australian Train Station. I want you to view this from the aspect of using the tool of violence. Listen to the police description of the attack but focus on the use of the tool and give me your thoughts by using the comments link at the bottom of this blog.


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It is clear these thugs knew how to use violence. They used it without remorse, but just hit their target (head). They even used the wall well. They were confident since they were in a group. What was also apparent was the ease with which they knocked the victim into a submissive (later unconscious) state. The violence really started when the victim let himself be surrounded by these thugs. He clearly tried to reason with these dirt-balls after being hit, and they probably got a huge kick out of it. Second big error: he stayed down as if he belonged there. It's possible he may have not been able to actually get up. Due to the antisocial nature of the violence, the reasoning didn't work. It probably fueled it. hope those dirt-balls were caught and roughed up a bit.
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The point is that a deadly weapon, to whit, a shod foot, was used. I am quoting directly from Massachusetts law there.
It shows when criminals want to hurt someone, they will. If the vicim had been able to carry a gun, it could have evened the odds.
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Charles – Clarksdale, MS
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First, lets go over this from the standpoint of the attackers use of the tool of violence.
Their technique was sloppy, but it did work. They left themselves open to attack from the victim (but I guess felt they outnumbered him, so they weren't worried.
The first attempt at a spinning back kick (as the victim hit the floor) did nothing to the victim other than glance off him. The next 2 kicks were much better aimed and certainly turned his system off for abit. At this point, I am not sure how coherent or co-ordinated he was any longer, and may have not been able any longer to fight back effectively.
The next kick did nothing, very poor targeting.
In the meantime ,the victim is trying to talk his way out of the altercation to no avail (a perfect example of social versus asocial behaviour).
After this, the attackers AGAIN leave themselves very open to attack by the victim, but at this point I still do not think he was capable of mounting a good counter-offensive.
The next kick is definitely more on target, and the final kick shuts him off like a lightswitch. Great targeting (or just dumb luck).
From the victims standpoint, it is not clear if he was having an amicable chat with these guys, or if he was already feeling threatened by them. If he was enjoying shooting the breeze, he was most probably unaware of the danger he was in, and may not have been able to counter anything until he was on the floor.
If he already felt threatened, he could either have tried to run, or at least get himself away from being totally surrounded by them, at which stage ho could start attcking them. It is a small hallway, and if he is facing them, it would have been more difficult for them to surround him again. He would have controlled the corridor.
Once he was on the floor, it makes it a little more difficult to use violence, but only a little. The attackers left themselves open to easy attacks to the groin, the knees, and many other spots on their lower bodies. If he would have moved right away into attack mode (and knew TFT), there is, in my humble opinion, at least a 70% chance that he would have walked away, and at least 2 if not more of the attackers would not have.
Needless to say, after the fourth and fifth kick there was nothing coming from him anymore.
This is of course only conjecture, as I was not there, and all we're seing is the security video from one vantage point.
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The attack its self was unexpected.
The targeting was random/and poor and didnt seem to get any real damage done. A lot seem to miss the targets intended. The whole attack appears to becoming the norm (many againts one.)
As usual, even in a very public place you have to be aware of your surrounding , pay attention to the people around and be prepared.
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Shawn, Fairlawn OH
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Charley
Millbrae,CA
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It is for this reason that Target Focus Training is ultimately of limited value UNLESS those who study it undergo some other "trial to attain manhood" on the sly so as to free themselves of the conditioning that turns them into punks like this kid. It is also why a civilized white society cannot allow Africans to emigrate. Every country that has imported Africans has lived to regret it. White people will be extinct by 2050 anyway and then all the Africans will go back to being slaves to the Chinese. It has already begun!
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1. was that the victim walked into a lonely poorly lit area (in a railway station?) when he should have noticed the odd looking guys (body language, voice tone and behavior) so close to him and behind him – a bad mistake
2. He let them crowd him in without emitting (?) strong predator signals to that tall guy who was the 'leader' to pass on the clear non -verbal message -I am watching you, back off, you are too close (territorial limits), you could get very badly hurt, even if you hurt me.
3. The victim (poor young chap) never expected or was prepared for such a violent confrontation in a dark lonely place which he ventured into alone. A bad mistake) He could at least have shouted and pointed at the CCTV camera, but he probably did not even see it.
4. He just caved in and cowered making his attackers more aggressive and arrogant. He did not even shout when the young couple passed by – they too seemed intimidated by the situation.
5. Anyone who is aware and powerful should have immediately looked at them directly and 'non verbally informed these 3 guys, especially the tall guy, – you are looking at:
(a)'someone who may kill you, so watch out'
(b)It was obvious that the 'leader' most violent guy was the tall guy, trying to impress his smaller companions.
(c) This guy should have been directly watched with an aggressive and direct eye contact with a sense of concealed but obvious power – smile, talk smooth and politely. But the real message being 'don't try it, you really don't know me, you may lose your life. Go ahead make me happy (forgive me Tim, I maybe watching too many Clint Eastwood films
(d)at the first sign of attack, this tall guy should have been disabled with a very hard nose break palm, eye scratch, with max impact so that he should have been on the ground. Obviously followed by crushed testicles. (please forgive me Tim for trying to talk the way you do:-). But you ARE a good teacher.
I will meet up with you sometime, Tim, guys. take care, and thank you for the valuable info.
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Fred Burtt, Reno, NV
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As for the victim he failed to use violence and also to recognize, as often said, that once it has begun your only way to truly stop it is to disable the person that is attacking you. He instead attempted to reason, bargain and/or plea his way out of the situation. This obviously did not work.
While the situation was disturbing, especially where others refused to assist in any way, it does show very clearly how violence can be carried out.
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BTW, I don't agree with anonymous. Being "outmatched" is being in a state of mind of what's being done to me. Perhaps like the guy in the train station?
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BTW, I don't agree with anonymous. Being "outmatched" is being in a state of mind of what's being done to me. Perhaps like the guy in the train station?
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2nd. Why ever did the 5th guy and his female companion walk through the kill zone as if on anti psycotics. Geez.
3rd. In Austrailia no guns, that sucks and this same thing could happen to Americans if we don't keep fighting for second ammendment rights. So, if it were me and I walked into this trap I would consider myself under attack. The closest guy would get his ankle (see I am a TFT guy) broke in as many places as possible just moments before I remove his eye ball. I would then kick a sixty yard field goal with the second closest guys privates. I would then throw the eyeball in my mouth and proceed to chase the last SOB until SWAT did a felony take down on me. Then I'd smile and swallow. Not guilty by reason of being scary er insanity. Or they can save all of this gore and give all without a criminal past the right to carry a firearm. RK
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Thank You for giving me an opportunity to share my thoughts on this attack.
To those of you who have not yet sunk your teeth into TFT I give TFT My Highest Accolade. If you desire to live a more peacefull, confident life… being aware of dangers that you may possibly face is nice however knowing how to survive that violence is better…. and that is what I personally GUARANTEE you TFT will give you…TFT will provide you with the knowledge of how to employ violence successfully 100% of the time… the choice of when you need to employ that violence well that resposibility lies squarly on your shoulders and more specifically the computer between your ears that rests there….
Personally Id rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Again a personal thank you to Mr Larkin and his cadre for bringing this material to their clients at such a high professional standard.
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M.Fish, AZ.
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But no more cowards then the oriental couple who walked on by.
Explain that one Tim!?
Wil, Hereford England
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IN MY OPION ONE WELL PLACED BLOW THAT WOULD SPLASH BOOD OVER THE OTHER TWO WOULD HAVE SENT THEM ALL RUNNING LIKE ,WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
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That scenario is one I would never be in. But if anything similar WERE to happen, I would put my right hand on the grips of a Colt Officers 1911, weak hand on pepper spray and retreat.
And if they ignored my warning to stay put or retreat, I would draw down on the closest one and fire if he got to within ten feet.
(Then make sure to take the others out as well.)
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Violence was used as a weapon of terror. It subdued his reactions and it prevented the couple from assisting.
The guy had three chances and he blew them all. Never should have let himself get cornered, couldn't roll with the punch and then tried talking his way out with unreasonable people instead of ground fighting. It seems that he never really understood the danger he was in, even after several kicks to the head. He continually looks amazed, rather than angry.
People that kick you in the head when you are down mean to kill you – and should be charged with such.
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1. It's about 360 degrees radar sweep (y'know, like the warships do at sea) in an obviously dangerous context. You take a 360 degree 'photograph' every thirty seconds, process the information and act accordingly. Simple.
2. It's about DETERRENCE – the THREAT of violence and NOT the tool of violence (not yet). This is the WAY you MOVE, 'on form', not 'off form'. I've several times swaggered confidently and aggressively on my own through gang members lining both sides of the street here in London at 2 am in the morning – and the only reaction I've every gotten has been 'Wow!' from the 'boyz 'n' their hoods'. Mostly it's silence. They're deterred.
3. It's always about being proactive, never reactive. If YOU make the decision YOU are in control. The decision is always between fight or flight but you must be the one making it. Immediately you decide, execute your decision instantly with maximum power and speed. Again, simple.
4. If your decision is FIGHT (i.e. you've failed to pick up the enemy on your radar and/or failed to deter them), then TFT comes into its own BUT NOT UNTIL THEN. Personally I find TFT helpful in terms of targeting (the details) but it's only one part of the bigger pattern I use – and not the most important part. Without utilising my bigger pattern, you limit yourself in dangerous ways. If you must wait until it 'kicks off' to become fully proactive and engaged, you're missing out the CRUCIAL first three steps I've outlined above.
P.S. I'm still obliged to put my own 'on form' patterns and rhythms to the acid test against some of the most notorious street gangs here in North London on a daily (and nightly) basis. I've been doing it for fifteen years. I'm still here, still doing it. It works. That's the only thing that matters.
Happy days.
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Al Hyslip, Newark, Ohio
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As soon as they broke away when the witnesses came through he needed to get out of there.
They showed through their attack that they have no skill at all in fighting. They were testing him and went as far as he let them.
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One interesting thing I've been thinking about is the initial mental reaction when surrounded by thugs. Or the recognition of an asocial occurrence. It seems the victim went down quickly without being tripped or pushed too hard, which says to me that he might have been weak kneed (who wouldn't?) or overwhelmed mentally at that stage. Recognition of what to do and visualization of actions is a big part of TFT.
I don't know if I would have escaped, but at least I do know that to focus on getting to perp's outside by rotating through the guy on the left. A plan of action is better than a plan of reaction.
Keep these coming.
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Three guys line up the victim, flanking and behind, one runs ahead as the other strikes and he is lined up for a donkey kick to the head which effectively neutralises the guy who seems stunned from then on in. The perps have time then to kick in at leisure including the final kick to the temple. It was awful to see the two passers by ignore /misread intentionally or not the situation.
I can hypothesise as to why that happened.
From a learning from violence point of view, fairly efficient as a pack hunt though a single strike to the back of the neck would have taken him out from the beginning whic suggests they wanted some interaction before the close out.
Points to learn the injury frees subsequent targetting.
From an awareness point of view…the flanking move , the run past from the reactive point of view knee/ankle and groin attacks from the ground on the guy on the right as a start beyond that who knows….however I think he was sufficently stunned from teh donkey kick to have lost coherence anyway…
Shalom
Joshua (Jamie)
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Mountain Home, AR
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What about the witnesses??? If they were reluctant to intervene directly- understandable if untrained, and especially with 3 males and a (presumably) untrained woman in the picture- I wonder if they made any attmpt to summon help when out of range?
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Matt A.
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The absence of a response from the victim is noteworthy, despite many opportunities.
And the casual walk-by of the couple is pretty typical also.
a graphic lesson in the reality that chicken-shit weasels are out there, and you must be ready to defend without compunction or remorse. NO ONE has an obligation to submit, not to anyone.
Rick
Detroit
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Wayne Chislett
Roatan
Isle de la Bahia
Western Caribbean Hn
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Watching this video made me literally sick to my stomach. I am a martial arts veteran of 25 years and also a pastor. The martial artists in me is angry and the pastor in me is saddened. Probably the most notable comment I could make is that none of my training, prior to entry into real world self-defense such as the TFT material, prepared me for such a scenario. Sadly, it appears that much of the confrontation may have been avoided by using the tools you teach.
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This is a premeditated attack , with intent and you should notice as I, with repeat viewing, that one of the assailants signals a member of his group(gang of thugs)as to when to begin the assault the assault was choreographed from the onset and the individual who signaled his "padner" then uses an appropriate and in my assessment planned and choreographed strike with his shoe(a weapon/tool)…while the targeting may be poor these criminals where following at the core nature many TFT principles….
That is all.
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Now, the kicks were sloppy and didn't target for anything, but they still got the job done since the guy didn't retaliate at all. The fight was done by the time the guy went down the first time. He was psychologically and emotionally defeated with no intent to fight back. The other guys had every intent to just victimize this guy. Asocial violence.
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These guys were just like a pack of wolves going for the easy, smaller prey. Luckily for the victim these guys have no clue what they are doing. Yes- they got the job done but they wasted so much energy to do it. It took three guys to take one smaller guys backpack. Terribly inefficient.
I do see the use of violence but it is all one-sided. The victim did not even try to get away. He tried to reason with them. This was his biggest mistake. He didn't yell for help in a busy train station. That in itself could have scared them off. It would be better than just sitting there taking it.
The unfortunate part is now this young man will be scarred for life due to this preventable situation.
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the laws that are too soft for such
crimes? What about single parent kids who spend most of their day
playing violent video games and
viewing gang activity on Utube?
Studies of the backgrounds of these
kids would help understand them, and what they where trying to accomplish. More affordable after
school programs,mandatory trade
training after Jr high will help
kids focus on their potential, whatever it may be. Paid programs
could give kids more hope and the
possiblility of a bright future.
As for the incident where is the security? Who is watching the cameras? A simple programmed locking gate on each end could catch the perpertrators from escaping.
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It might be interesting to see TFT training try some "situational" practice.
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In the absence of their conversations, personally I would start striking right after being thrown down (or sooner if I feel threatened).
I am curious about one thing though, why did these thugs let the couple pass freely? Why not rob, hit, etc. them as well?
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At that point, there is no reason that will satisfy the question 'why'.
He was caught up in a #$%&storm at that point, and the sooner he acknowledged it within himself, the sooner he might have at least tried to protect himself.
Interesting to note that even though there are 3 of them, their 'technique' is clumsy at best.
They rely on their numbers to get the job done.
It shows that if he had managed to get his feet under him and injure one of them, they may have backed off, or at least have hesitated a little before each attack, allowing further injury to be dealt.
The list of injuries to him is long, but he is lucky that that is all that happened. At the beginning of the setup, you can see what looks like one of the animals pulling something out of his pocket .. that could very easily have been some sort of edged instrument.
Be polite, but firm, maintain your distance, watch their hands.
-Dave.
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I hope we NEVER have to face that loss.
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I was taught as young street kid to keep your radar on at all times. One other point he has no obvious street/MA training. I prefer being the cause.
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a great deal of my spiritual training regards "this very body, this very lifetime" as a supreme gift- an extraordinary opportunity and blessing on so many levels of Being- this means you also have a supreme responsibility in cultivating and furthering the possibilities of a heart-value oriented life. simply put, any resourcefulness that furthers a precious life of valuing endeavor is to be condoned- so it seems simple to me that there is at times a stark necessity/ reality to use violence as a tool. i have taken one training at tft-i hope to do more. keep up the good work..
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1) You're not the victim. Quitting siding with him. Quitting living vicariously and empathetically through his beating.
2) You *are* the actor. The cause. Period.
With that in mind, I learned this:
a) Don't pause, stand back and evaluate whether *that* strike was the finishing blow.
(Rationale: too many of you commented on the time lapse between blows, I don't want you to have the opportunity to consider a reaction.)
b) A fast strike is (literally) nothing compared to a strong, accurately targeted strike. While adrenaline will negatively affect my targeting and amp my speed, *think slow*.
c) I will not turn my back and walk away until the situation is resolved according to my satisfaction.
I need breathing to cease, ambulatory function to fail, CNS destruction. The actors/forces of causation failed to accomplish any of those goals.
jmf
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1) The victim was woefully unaware of his surroundings. One with awareness would not be walking with three strangers in such a narrow, dimly lit corridor.
2) The perps were not at all concerned about what the victim would do, or about how they would defend themselves against him, just as TFT explains. They were not skilled fighters. They were wide open for either a first or counter strike, and a first strike that injured any one of them would have probably scattered the other two.
3) One would not need a gun against these three bums. Testicles and knees, then throats and eyes were available to the victim up to the moment he was knocked out.
4) On a side note, civilized, western men had best realize that the savages among them need to be put down, and then find the will to do so.
Mike phrom Philly
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A good example of asocial behavior vs. anti-social behavior. The victim tries to talk to his attackers and clearly this does nothing to improve his situation.
His position against the wall only makes their strikes more brutal, similar to your demonstration w/ a victim who is on the ground.
As others have noted, many targets were easily available if the victim had chosen to act to defend himself. Most obvious to me were the groin, and ankles.
Shame on those two people who did nothing to help the victim who was so obviously outnumbered. I hope that if that were me, I would not be afraid to do what is right and help that guy. Unless actually tested, I'm not sure that anyone can say w/ absolute certainty what they would do. Fear is a very crippling emotion.
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". Friend I need to YELL at YOU…"BLOODBORNPATHOGENS"….
So how about instead of eating the eyeball you serve it up as a cold dish to assailant number three if he is not allready capitulating or running in fear from your appropriate combat attitude…My brother once force fed fish eggs to an adversary. I doubt it would be much more difficult to do so with a human eyeball.
Thank you again for your commentary.
Anonymous made a statement that the perps/three stooges didn't feel the need to finish the job.
I strongly disagree and recommend that anonymous watch the footage again.
The victim is unconscious and targets are still being attacked while he is obviously incapacitated.Also note that when he is incapacitated and these targets are being struck his central nervous system is eliciting nil response to the trauma when the assailants left the man we was unconscious/ incapaciated had suffered a serious head injury and as far as they where concered they had finished the job. As I stated before he could very likly have died from any number of the attacks he endured. I also did not see the assailants check his breathing nor pulse after liberating his rucksack from him. Any Competant District Attourney could successfully prosecute an attemted homicide charge and quite possibly conspiracy and many other serious charges you get the gyst…especially if the assailants where only defended by the likly which would be a public defender…
They had intent, it was certainly premeditated, it was gang activity and activity to benefit a gang, it was robbery, aggravated assault and attempted murder.NUFF SAID.
Anoymous #2 said
"3 on 1… This Guy had no chance…And I dont't believe TFT would have helped…"
I have only this to say.
BULLPIE.
Also with regard to the couple who walked by and did nothing. I did not see the victim cry out for help and the assailants adapted to the situation and adopted a relaxed posture only when the couple had passed did the conflict resume and the assailants became more brazen and aggresive.
Another note that NEEDS to be addressed. Continually calling these criminal assailants cowards is all fine and well and good. It gives you that warm fuzzy feeling in your tummy dont it. Your missing the TFT point and in my assesment you need to hit the books , dvds and mats more.Study your TFT more, PERIOD. These assailants attacked in a "clean well lighted place" a brazen attack with potential witnesses and in full view of surveillance cameras…calling them cowards is naive and ignorant…and if you have this idea that when "violence is the only answer…" that you likly will be facing an asocial "coward" you are doing yourself and TFT a grave disservice.
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Thanks for the compliment. My use of the word 'aggressive' was probably misleading. I don't make eye contact and don't say anything. I just focus on driving my whole body forward with rhythmic rotation, perfectly centered, knees slightly bent, using my thigh, calf, ankle and foot musculature and structures to move fluidly and in perfect balance. I do this all the time, even when walking to the shops. Call it TFT leg dynamics in motion if you like, although I was doing it long before I'd heard of TFT. All highly trained MA guys walk this way. It deters most would-be predators (not all) most of the time.
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I don't blame the male passerby for not intervening. He was protecting his girlfriend's safety, which he would have risked if he had taken on all three goons. One of them might have taken his girlfriend 'hostage' while he was engaged with the other two. Don't blame him. He was protecting his girlfriend. I would have done the same.
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Now I'm older and don't do any fighting now, I still see situations like this all the time and wonder how can people have their guard down so much.
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Why should they stop?
They are at risk too.
One male and his partner…
You can't expect strangers to help you out in times of crisis. You have to be able to control your own timeline.
Waiting for someone to help you out is futile. we already know that society tunes out. He could have used the distraction they provided to run. Society wants help, but will not offer any. The indifference of the city.
He made his own decisions. To stay put. I have helped strangers and the first thing they have all done is run once the attention is off them which left me in the fire.
I had the training, ut what can you expect of the untrained?
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I think the critical 5 seconds were between seconds 8-12.
You cannot see the front perp's hands, but you can see his feet. The perp directly behind our unfortunate victim is reaching for victim's back pocket (robbery?)and looking at the feet of the front perp, looks like a grab for victim, as he feels the pull at his back pocket his body is pulled to face the front and rear right perps, allowing the perp that was behind left to get infront, setting up the first head kick (after front perps pushed the victim to the ground).
Was this first strike enough to stun victim into inaction for the next critical 6-7 seconds before the next head blows come?
(Alot has already been said about this space of time between the first head kick and the next, and what the victim could and should have done, so no need to go there.)
Reviewing the knock down and first kick, the big perp at the back blocks the view of what the front perp did (as the victim spun) and exactly what the strike was that sent the victim to the ground.
Was that first strike a "target-focused" strike, that caused the victim to reflex? I do not think so, and even the second strike (first head kick) seemed to be a flat footed (little power and form) mule kick, though enough to cause the back of victims head to strike the wall behind. (Perps appear to all be wearing running shoes – the guy would probably be dead otherwise).
There was no reflexive action of victim holding his head or even arms or torso,(from possible damage from first strike).
During seconds 13 – 18 it is agonizing to watch. Lots of possible actions could have occured during this time as many have discussed.
Equally agonizing to watch seconds 45-and on. The pause in the attack as the two passers-by moved past gave some recovery to the victim, and again lots of possible actions could have occured.
Thanks for sharing this clip Tim! It shows how quickly things can happen, and shows a gang set-up of a victim. The presence of mind to make the decision to ACT at seconds 9, 10, 11, 12, (dispite being set-up by a gang) is what your training strives to teach, first recognize, then execute.
Finding oneself in seconds 13-18 is another set of training, to "regain" presence of mind, and then execute. Same during and just after the passers by, to recognize and gain advantage of the situation.
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There was nothing interdicting it, and it had a pretty good speed and run up following behind the actual kick.
Then again, an immobile target is a pretty much dead target. The Romans eventually learned that against the Parthians and Persian deghans.
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This is all recorded and in the subject country they would only consider the bad guys as wayward youth or hooligans not considering the fact that the bad guys did not care one bit if they killed the victim. I would either get away or create my damage outside of camera view and I would not care if I did permanent damage or worse.
That kind of kicking puts them off balance and gives me many options to topple one or all. It was truly disgusting to see people walk by without at least yelling for help.
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Most of what I'd say about that can be found two blog posts down in Preventing Violence vs. Doing Violence:
http://www.targetfocustraining.com/blog/2009/04/preventing-violence-vs-doing-violence.html
The gist being that we view violence through our own personal filters, most commonly empathizing with the victim and trying to figure out what we, as the victim, would do differently.
It's like trying to learn how to win at football by only paying attention to what losing teams do.
As counterintuitive, painful, and morally troubling as it is, you have to look at what the winners do and see yourself as a person who does violence. Everything else is you practicing to be a victim.
This doesn't mean that you condone criminal behavior or think it's 'cool' — I sure don't — it just means you're going to focus on what is demonstrably effective instead of 'shoulda-woulda-coulda.'
This video clearly shows that:
- Manipulating social expectations can get you into a position to strike,
- From the point of the first injury, violence is completely one-sided,
- It's easiest to kick or stomp a downed man, and
- All injury is ultimately aimed at shutting off the brain.
The next step is to look for ways to improve the process: What mistakes did the winners make? How could they have done the work of violence more efficiently? This is where conjecture actually informs your learning.
I'm not being flip, blasé or mocking the victim — it's just that the one thing that hamstrings us (sane, law-abiding people) is the fact that we empathize with the victim and try to figure out what to do in violence by looking at the person getting worked instead of the person doing the work.
It's not a comfortable or easy adjustment, but once you make the switch — tracking your eyes upward off the guy on the ground and onto the guy who's standing — violence becomes simple mechanics, physics and physiology meeting badly.
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Wow! Chris you must be a very precise, very learned individual. How true, how focused. Thank you very much for your comments and directing all of us to the blog on preventing Vs doing violence. One problem is that in normal life 99 percent of the time most of us do not face such asocial criminals, hence the general focus on prevention. On the other hand it is essential that we are very clearly aware that the 99% of circumstances we face in normal life very rarely has the potential of killing you, while the 1% or less chance that we meet up with a really deranged asocial could kill us. Hence it is vital that we know this fact and are prepared. Thanks again Chris. Keep in touch. Your contribution can save a life.
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I take your point on preventing violence, and I'd say the problem is what, exactly, people are interested in preventing. Most training has you practicing to not get hit or otherwise attempt to interrupt the other person doing violence, which really doesn't jibe with reality. The most glaring contradiction comes with classic 'knife defense' — if you watch videos of stabbings you can see there's never any face-off or back-and-forth dance. It's just one person stabbing and one person getting stabbed. Most victims of such violence report never even seeing the knife; they thought they were being punched. The only realistic way to train for this is to train to cause injury, to be the person doing the violence. (This has borne out in real life — long story short, TFT instructor finds out it's on when he gets stabbed from behind (thought he got punched) and the first thing he does is drop the guy. Happy end of story.)
If, instead, we're talking about preventing the violence from even beginning, I whole-heartedly agree. You should go out of your way to not be involved, do whatever you can to de-escalate, disengage, or just plain not be there. When you have the choice, the answer is always no.
I figured this was all common sense. Turns out it isn't.
The problem is looking at what we do as 'fighting.' It's more correct to look at it the same way as firearms training. If you think about it, the vast majority of firearms owners will never shoot a man to death, and yet they are willing to expend time and money preparing for that moment. As you note, true asocial violence is a rare enough event that you'll very likely never encounter it. Preparation in this regard is a life insurance policy, like knowing how to swim should we ever need to do so to keep from drowning.
This is really just a long-winded way of saying prevention only works on what's truly preventable — and that's all the front-loaded crap before things come to blows. Once that physical plane's been breached you don't get to choose whether or not you get punched, kicked, stabbed, or shot. If we could pick, we'd all say no, thank you. And I'd spend time training people to keep those things from happening. But again, reality shows that's not the case. The only choice you have in that moment is whether you're the person doing the violence or the one getting done.
Trying to prevent violence once it's started is like trying to prevent having been shot. Ain't gonna happen.
Your best bet in that moment is to return fire.
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Thank you very much for that. I just saw that you are a senior TFT trainer. All one could say for all the highly relevant comments you have made is amen! Having said that, I would like many readers I am sure agree, get to the core issue involved in these discussions. As you may have gathered, I am a 66 year old, comparatively pretty fit bat:-) All my son's airline crew members who have met had I understand made a commitment that when they are 60+ years they should be at least half as fit as I am, well that's somewhat encouraging too. But my major interest in this topic is due to the fact that I actually hate bullies who pick on defenseless absolutely innocent persons to positively reinforce their asocial behaviour, probably originating from their own abused childhood. One has to be totally aware of the situation one is in.
I also try to apply a technique known as a 'soft drop' used a long time ago by American Special Forces, where an intelligent assessment is made of an enemy location without any possible way that 'enemy' could be aware that he is being assessed and his behaviour recorded. I believe if anyone suddenly perpetrates some asocial violence, on you or your loved ones, your 'soft drop' on the situation you were in was defective and inadequate, (as Terry had stated the 360 deg. scan was not effective, as the radar signature of the asocial person was too small to be picked up). This is where the problem should be focused on. We must watch manner of speech, body language, tone of voice, rhythm of speech, eye contact time and manner as well as violations of territorial limits common in any genteel society. Only then can one have more than the critical 5 seconds to act in. On the other hand if we are suddenly pounced upon (which I still believe is highly unlikely if one is really aware of his surroundings) then only a rapid, trained, massively incapacitating injury could save you and your loved one's. Hey Chris, I love your professional and aware comments. I would really appreciate a detailed critique of my comments. Thank you very much to you and Tim, for the absolutely great work, so very sad but vital in this day and age. Take care guys. Thank you:-)
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Where do we start? You (TFT) start when it all kicks off. I start immediately I hit the street, with GTC's 'soft drop' 360 degree radar (and audio) sweep of my surroundings every thirty seconds. If it's good enough for the American Special Forces…
And I don't stop there. I use DETERRENCE (not 'prevention') as a critical further tool in the pre-violence stage. This is NOT bravado in the sense you have caricatured it on many occasions in your newsletters. Instead it is a completely controlled physical and mental rhythm and pattern that is understated but potent. I don't need to say anything or even look at anyone. It's all about me, focused, 'locked down', confident – leg dynamics in motion if you will!
In this situation, if it all kicks off, I'm never caught cold (as at least one TFT instructor has been) because I'm already fully warmed up, ready to explode (pre-emptively if I so decide) into and through anyone who launches, or is about to launch, a direct physical attack on me or mine.
The start determines the end.
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In training terms, we start at the point of first injury. What has happened before that doesn't matter.
As you note, quiet confidence is very different from — and more effective than — bravado. Bravado is a caricature of confidence, it scares off the people you didn't need to worry about in the first place and can actually attract the worst among us.
But even that deterrent confidence can fail us. When people are looking for other humans to prey upon, they'll pass over those exuding that confidence since they're not usually spoiling for a hard fight but for easy pickings. They want someone behaving like a prey animal… just like any one of us would if we were sick, feeling like crap, depressed or preoccupied. People won't pick us when we're ready. Violence is going to come to us literally when we least expect it — and we're least prepared.
Of course, from your post it sounds like you've already got all this sorted out. Keep up the good work!
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It's this honesty on your part that gives TFT its credibility, not just with me but with all those lucky enough to have encountered a system that really does add a whole new (scientific) dimension to effective self-offence.
I'm just about to order your Throwing DVD set.
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Somewhere in the series of tubes that is teh Interwebs your following comment got lost. I'm reposting it here so I can address your points:
Terry wrote:
"Chris,
"I find your anti-social/asocial paradigm very problematic. Take the video in question. Was that anti-social or asocial violence? The gang didn't want to kill their victim. If they had they would have acted totally differently – with ten or a dozen kicks and stomps to the head instead of just a couple."
The antisocial/asocial pradigm is clearest at the extremes, say, when comparing the bar fight over a perceived slight against an attempted murder. It gets admittedly fuzzy as you move from those extremes toward the center. A bar fight can turn into an attempted murder just as what looks like a life-or-death situation can be simple aggression. The closer these two poles get the more it becomes a judgment call on the part of the individual who feels threatened.
I always assumed that the difference between 'fighting' and 'killing' was clear and understood by all — my first mistake. The antisocial/asocial discussion came out of a very challenging course we taught in Dallas where everyone was coming at the material like it was for casual play-fighting or some kind of super-badass bar skill. We drew the line so people could get their heads screwed on straight and put the information in the proper context: violence, the way we train it, is appropriate for any situation where you'd need to shoot a person to death if you had a gun. We just show you how to do it without the firearm.
The sole purpose in presenting this video is to illustrate what works in violence. The three men put the tool to good use (though there are many places they could improve). As I've stated before, our problem as sane, socialized people is that we empathize with the victim and try to work solutions from his situation. This is a trap. If we're going to be effective at using violence we have to look at those who 'win.' This isn't easy, trivial, or comfortable… but empathizing with the victim and trying to train from his perspective means we're always going to be a half-step behind, and we're training to behave like desperate prey animals instead of predators.
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"This video shows anti-social violence of the kind that happens routinely each weekend here in London. Now let's suppose the victim had been a TFT mastery student and used his intensive TFT training in this situation.
"He would have downed the tall goon with, say, a perfectly targeted strike to the genitals and an immediate forearm smash to the side of the neck. The other two goons would have turned and legged it as this was happening. The tall goon would be down but by no means out. What to do?
"TFT teaches that you must not stop until you leave the other guy dysfunctional. So, your mastery student dutifully does a double knee drop to the downed man's internal organs, with a forearm smash to the throat for good measure and (perhaps) one or two base leverage breaks of arms, wrists or legs. Job done.
"The cops run the tape and your TFT mastery student ends up in court on a charge of using grossly disproportionate force against a man who was already on the ground injured.
"You see my problem with TFT. It's dangerous – for those who practice it. I have a solution.
"Later."
I've trained people who have used this skill in the most dire of circumstances — guns, knives, multiman, and at least one premeditated attempted murder. In every case they survived — and won — without having to kill the people who came after them. They could have, and would probably have been cleared given the situation, but they didn't. That's because they achieved, and recognized, nonfunctional before they got to killing.
'Nonfunctional' means simply that you're comfortable turning your back on the man and walking away. This can mean different things for different people depending on the situation. For some it's simple unconsciousness, for others it's the person visibly quitting, being preoccupied with his injuries and behaving like an injured person. We leave this as a judgment call for each individual.
We train people to injure people. More importantly, we train people how to recognize success, and what to do with it. Each injury is a choice based on what they recognize they achieved, and what they want beyond that. We're also very clear on which injuries tend to be life-threatening — giving the practicioner the ability to change their target a few inches to get the clavicle instead of the throat. Or vice-versa.
Most of the time it's over so quickly — nonfunctional status achieved and recognized — that the person chose to stop before inflicting needless harm. In other words, recognizing that they didn't need to stomp on his throat or break his neck because the man was no longer a threat.
In the end, unrestrained violence is only appropriate any time you'd find it appropriate to pull a gun and shoot to kill. If that's not the case, I recommend you go out of your way to avoid the situation. Unlike a firearm, using your body to cause injury gives you a lot of flexibility in the type and severity of those injuries.
For anyone who's interested in training to go physical with the antisocial — for submission, control, or 'fighting' — there are many training options out there. Just remember that you do what you train, so it can be difficult to switch it up in a true life-or-death situation. Also remember the risk you're taking when you choose to engage when it's 'merely antisocial' — most of the time people don't die in such situations, but it can happen. You can accidentally kill someone. And accidentally be killed.
The antisocial/asocial paradigm gives us a rough guideline to understand the avoidable vs. the unavoidable, and how to operate in each. Given that, our physical training is for breaking the human machine in the most extreme ways possible, and yet, our methodology is so thorough that in practice our clients have shown great restraint. Restraint that is only possible when you combine a willingness to truly injure the other person with a complete understanding of precisely what each injury will do.
Thanks for your comments, and I hope this helps.
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Thank you very much indeed for taking the time and trouble to illuminate so brilliantly the particular points I raised.
Your detailed answer serves to make the TFT position on these matters much clearer in terms of theory and actual practice for those of us unable to attend the regular San Diego Mastery sessions.
I'm a very satisfied customer!
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I've seen people that have trained for years in doing this and doing that have been bashed or stabbed by guys that haven't done any training at all and I never forget that.
This is hard-won wisdom that colors pretty much everything I do as a practitioner and instructor. Thanks for pointing that out.
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