An active shooter is an armed person who has used deadly physical force on other persons and continues to do so while having unrestricted access to additional victims.
—Sheriff’s Office Policy and Procedure Manual (El Paso County, Colorado)
[Tim Larkin comment: Chris and I purposely held this post during the aftermath of last month's tragedy in Colorado. But with a seemingly endless string of shootings... the latest near the Empire State Building in NYC just this morning... we'd like you to consider this message now, even if it's not what most want to hear.]
—–
Let’s remove reason and morality from the equation and imagine YOU are the active shooter.
What do you want? An unrestricted field of fire in a target-rich environment. To be the only one dictating the tempo so you can maintain all of the above.
Like a shark cleaving through a school of fish, you want everyone responding to what you do in such a way as to reinforce your operational dominance. In other words, you want the crowd to surge away from you.
When they run they move into your work area and provide a target better than the broad side of a barn… the backside of a crowd. They clear out space in front of you so you are free to fire at will. And best of all, they leave you alone to do what you came here for, and in spades.
This understanding—as reprehensible as it is to dwell on it—is valuable because it tells us what we really need to do in these situations: we must, as a group, swarm the shooter.
We have to tackle him, weigh him down with numbers, immobilize him with our sheer mass. This is the only way to limit his access to victims, interrupt his ability to operate and strip him of control over the engagement—essentially reversing the roles and forcing him to worry about defending himself from a panicked mob.
If you’re the shooter, you want distance, not people closing, close or right next to you, spoiling your aim, restricting your field of fire, imposing a time-limit on how long you’re operational. If you’re the shooter, you want time and space within which to work.
If you’re in the crowd, you want to restrict, constrict, and eliminate that time and space.
While it looks great on paper, it should be understood that the swarm tactic won’t reduce casualties to zero. But if it’s the difference between three or 13 dead then the cold equations say it’s better that we lose a few instead of many. It certainly can’t be any worse than what we currently have (and experienced once again in Colorado)… the herd-tactic of hoping he has so many targets you’ll be the lucky one who’s overlooked.
Swarming an active shooter isn’t an easy thing, compounded by the fear that you’ll be the only one who goes for it. It’s only going to work if you know at least some of the people around you are going to pile in with you, that it’s not just you vs. the shooter, but the entire crowd.
We need to decide, as a society, that we are done allowing the insane to exercise their madness on us freely and without immediate consequence; that we will not be picked off as terrified individuals but will rise as one and end any threat before it can gain traction.
(Tim Larkin comment: After each of the recent “active shooter” rampages: Columbine, VA Tech, Ft. Hood, Tucson, Aurora and, this morning, the Empire State Building, my Israeli friends contact me asking the same question, “Why don’t Americans know to swarm the shooter?” This tactic is well known in Israel (they learned the hard way) and was used successfully enough to change the preferred tactic used by these murderers from ‘active shooter’ to ‘suicide bomber.’ Which shows that shutting down one avenue to a killer will not stop violence completely but we can shut down this particular tactic’s success rate by swarming an active shooter.)
Sounds great, right? So why won’t we?
Liability. It’s probably cheaper to tell you to run and hide as an individual than it is to tell you to swarm the shooter as a group.
If you run, hide and get shot to death alone, well, it’s the shooter’s fault.
If you take direct action and get shot to death, every lawyer in a three-state radius pricks up their ears.
Simple fear. Completely natural and understandable. No one wants to get shot to death. There’s a million years of evolutionary pressure that has to be overcome in order to act instead of react. But this is where training comes in—you replace fear with knowledge and practice. Resolve yourself to a course of action, get physical training, and then practice for the results you want.
In a perfect world we would decide, as a society, that we’ve had enough and tell everyone to swarm an active shooter, then practice doing so at home, at school, at the workplace until everyone knew that the only person who would be alone in that situation would be the shooter himself.
Unfortunately, in our imperfect world only one person will learn anything at all from the latest horror—the next shooter. And he will find himself with an unrestricted field of fire in a target-rich environment where his madness is free to feed, unopposed.
–Tim Larkin & Chris Ranck-Buhr
Target Focus Training
[Authors' notes: The references below will give you further insight into the ideas we've discussed above, and our thoughts about each.]
Swarming Tactics: For Law Enforcement & Armed Citizens?
Though specifically speaking of armed response, I found the description of the interruption of the shooter’s work illuminating.
—–
DHS Gives Pointers on Surviving Shooting Sprees
With skeptical commentary from a victim of the Virginia Tech shooting.
—–
How to Survive a School Shooting
Opinion by Larry Banaszak, Chief of Police at Otterbein University
Chief Banaszak has actually instituted the training of swarm tactics for faculty and staff, providing specifics.
—–
Run > Hide > Fight: Surviving an Active Shooter Event
Someone who doesn’t exactly agrees with our approach.
PS. If you’re new to TFT and our self-defense system, called by many, “THE most effective training of it’s kind in the world today,” be sure to use the link in the upper left corner of this page to join our newsletter list and gain access to a series of free videos. To learn more, check out our Products or Live Training tools.
Finally, see Glenn Beck’s recent comments about TFT and his recommendation to his readers and subscribers.


Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
The missing element in the gun-grabbers’ plan to rid the Earth of firearms is the human heart, which can be as black and evil as the imagination will allow. If there are no firearms with which to destroy innocent lives, these evil people will turn to other means of destruction, notably explosives, but also poison, swords, acid, etc. It is not the inanimate object one should worry about; it is the evil hearts of murderers. Someone bent upon destroying people at a movie theater will not tell himself, “Oh, well, I can’t get hold of a gun, so I guess I’ll just have a change of heart.”
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
You could not be more correct. We have become so fearful we forget how make a difference. Living on Lake Michigan I found this true when someone was reported missing in the water. Instead of everyone looking for them they all got out of the water and waited for rescue personel. Growing up on the lake my friends and I would run to the location and start searching as every moment counts. If we were home we would go to the beach and start looking. The crowd would run to see the dead body but would not jump in and help.
The people on one of those fateful flights on 9/11 didn’t forget and even though it cost them their lives they proved what you are saying, the plane did not complete its mission. Thank you for bringing this topic forward, I hope you get a lot of responses.
Reply to comment
You’re right about people forgetting how to make a difference. Although I’ve never been near a gun maniac, I’ve helped saved several people from serious injury or death on different occasions because in all cases, I took immediate action. So if you were to multiple my actions by everybody on earth who has been near an emergency, what would that result in?
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Of course, if somebody could get behind him with a long enough piece of dental floss to go around his neck…
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Well said. Unfortunate, but true. Otherwise it would be a great idea. It is scary times for citizens of the U.S.A.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
So says the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in a public service video posted online late last month. If you find yourself in the midst of a mass shooting, such as the gun attack near the Empire State Building Friday morning (Aug. 24), or the deadly theater shooting in Colorado on July 20, the DHS urges you to take one of three actions: run, hide or fight — in that order of preference.
Run
When an active shooter is in your vicinity, and you have an escape route, evacuate. Leave your belongings behind, but help other people evacuate if possible. (The DHS video notes that you shouldn’t wait around for people who don’t want to flee.) Once you’re away from the danger zone, prevent others from entering it. Stop to call 911 only once you are safe. [See DHS Video]
Hide
When a shooter is nearby and you have nowhere to run, find a place to hide. Your hiding place should be out of the shooter’s view — ideally behind a locked or blocked door — and it should provide protection should shots be fired in your direction. It should not trap or restrict your options for movement when the time comes to leave the hiding place and go to safety. (In the video, those hiding push a round table against the door, also locking it.)
Remember to turn off lights and silence your cellphone.
Fight
“As a last resort, if your life is at risk, whether you are alone or working together as a group, fight,” the DHS video instructs. “Act with aggression. Improvise weapons. Disarm him. Commit to taking the shooter down no matter what.” (In the video, co-workers improvise weapons using a fire extinguisher, a belt and a chair to take down the perpetrator when he enters their room.)
To summarize, if you have an escape route, run. If you don’t, hide. If there’s nowhere to run or hide, fight for your life.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Duck and cover. If you notice an atomic bomb going off, jump under your desk, or hide behind laundry hanging on a clothesline. Cover yourself with newspaper.
Riiiight.
Hide behind an interior door to avoid being killed by gunfire. Better yet, outrun those bullets.
Who writes this stuff?
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Of course, people who like to hear themselves talk tough with their CCWs would be the first to oppose a draft here at home.
Double standard, indeed
Reply to comment
And it would work only IF you are in a group of people who share the same POV and can act quickly.
That wasn’t the case on 5th Ave where there were a lot of disparate people and the spaces were wide open with heavy traffic going on.
You could possibly pull this off in a movie theatre, airplane or an eclosed space.
Reply to comment
(I live in the city and work 10 blocks from the scene…so that area is very familiar)
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
The symbol for the no gun zones, be it a mall, school, city, etc. should be “fish in a barrel” and to stree the point people entering should be required to wear targets on their backs, then maybe some one would get the picture. No gun zones are definately people poaching areas!
Supprize! Anyone wanting to kill people don’t pay attention to a damn sign! When does good old common sense kick in!
To cure this blood bath bring back the death penalty, (justice regular or extra crispy) and don’t allow these bastards to die of old age in prison or sue if they don’t get the right flavor slurpie! And for heaven’s sake a person is just as dead killed with a gun, knife, rock, car, bare hands or what ever. Cold blooded murder is MURDER period!
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Can you imagine how she felt as the murder continued around her? “If only I had my gun.”
OTOH, there was recently a case of a shopper at a big box store–Costco?–who was shot to death by cops because his concealed weapon alarmed a store employee.
May I post a link? If not, the moderator can remove it.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/sep/24/shoppers-recount-police-shooting-outside-costco/
Chris is right about rushing the shooter (if unarmed) being the best tactic ‘for the crowd’, but ever since the feminist movement, men have by and large been turned into simpering girly-wimps.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
And don’t preach to me and try to raise my consciousness. I’m a granny now, but I was a Marine back in the day. Not because of feminism, but because of a sense of fair play. I reasoned that if the boys I knew were being drafted (for Viet Nam), it was only right that I lend a hand, too.
All the women in my family, who have reached the age of 21 years, carry concealed, except my mother, who no longer has the strength to pull the trigger. And she’s exercising to get that back.
Reply to comment
“Here is the really inconvenient truth in my humble opinion: when shooting starts, the average person immediately either runs or tries to hide. This is basically everyone except a very select crowd. That’s why nutjobs kill so many people. I swear, if every able man present just rushes a shooter as soon as he starts, a few brave souls may be wounded or killed, but the rest would take him down. It only takes 1.5 seconds to rush someone 21 feet away. Learn how to cause multiple injuries in someone with your bare hands and he’ll go down even faster. Examples: a good kick to the groin, a solid punch to the throat, finger(s) to the eye(s), a hard boxing of the ears, grabbing a finger or two and bending it the wrong way, etc. Keep injuring until you’re satisfied he is stopped.”
Sincerely,
Jason, TFT Live Class of Apr 2012
Reply to comment
I think that these things happen in places that do not allow open/concealed weapons.
This would have ended differently, out here. Oregon allows open and concealed carry, not a good place to try that shit. I applaud your advice in todays e-mail.
If that happpened here he”The Shooter”, would be out gunned and in defense mode, I ashure you.
Your method of perspective example is a great way to think and train. With what I can carry, and yor training method, this guy wouldn’t last long. Legal citizens can defend themselves with firarms and carry openly in Oregon. And it is a great deterant. James,Oregon
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
The saying is true: When Gun control is in place ONLY the Criminal has guns.
Carrying and taking action may save a few lives but the carrier will be crucified if there is the least excuse available. The shot will not necessarily stop at the target – you gotta worry about unexpected effects…the shot bounces of a building and hit an innocent bystander or any of a dozen other possibilities. It is the responsibility of the Carrier to take all those things in mind when deciding to shoot.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
To freedom and liberty, Dr. Alan
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Today, on the radio, I heard “if there has been civilians there with guns, things could have been much worst, they would have been in a circle shoot”.
Some years ago, after Colimbine I think, a school brought in an instructor to teach the childern to fight back. Throw things, anything, and rush the shooter and hit and kick, etc. There was an uproar, “you are teaching our children to be violent!”
I agree with what you are saying, but our elected officials and especially our schools preach/teach submission, don’t get involved, run, hide, etc. BE SHEEP!!!
It is not convenient or comfortable but still I carry. I consider it a community service besides self protection. I know people who carry that say they will not go after an active killer, too much liability, civil and criminal. Sad, but they have a point.
At Virginia Tech one guy, in ROTCE, charged the killer, it took 6 hits to stop him, no one else charged. Sad.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
A single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others–the worst shooting ever to take place on an American military base.
ARMY BASE!
I’m tired of this rambo type attitudes without using common sense and some brains. One can’t make generalizations in these things no matter how convenient in proving a point.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Political correctness becasue this looser/traitor/Mohamadist would not have rose to the rank of ‘butter bars’ if he had not been one of the ‘choosen’ by this administration. He was in the heart of ‘shrink land’ and no one stopped him from his loonacy! It sure as hell was not because the Army shrinks were not aware of it. It was because in this f..ked up envoironment you can be as nutty as you please as long as it is the P.C. kind of nutty!
Prime example of gun control being a joke because only the wrong person had the gun. This was the US Army for heaven’s sake. Their main tool to get the job done is a rifle or pistol and they were just as defenseless as any civilian ‘fish in a barrel’!
If anything can be taken from Fort Hood it is 1. P.C. is B.S. and 2. NO GUN zones just provide targets for the psychos!
Reply to comment
But if everyone’s mental history was an open book and subject to checking out before a gun permit was issued, you’d be the first one screaming about privacy, govt. intrusion, and god knows what else you’d free-style (mis)interpret from the founding fathers.
I’ve heard it all from both sides and hardly ever is it close to constructive.
That’s because people get all emotional about it. And THAT’S the biggest problem.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
We have anti-gun politicians that somehow think tragidies like these enforce their stance.
Reply to comment
People also fear repercussions. Rush a shooter? Not going to happen. Maybe it would happen, as in Israel, if terrorists were were attacking every few hours of every day, but here in America, these shooting events are not so common, and the people are not ready for such personal sacrifice.
People who carry concealed weapons fear repercussions. They fear being mistaken as a shooter’s accomplice, and being shot by police. They fear a justice system that values retreat over attack, and being prosecuted for attacking. They fear being sued by a surviving terrorist who is left crippled, not shot dead, or sued by the terrorists’ relatives, who will be sought out by sniveling lawyers to prosecute for wrongful death. They fear missing their target, and shooting innocent bystanders. They fear getting it all wrong, as in the case of a movie stunt or a bad practical joke, and they shoot a stupid but innocent person. People fear losing their right to keep and bear arms.
I don’t go to public places much, not just because most public places are “gun-free zones” here in Minnesota, but also because I can’t afford such frivolous time wasters as watching movies, going to sporting events, or shopping in mega malls. I have not sought a permit to carry a concealed weapon because I don’t want to provide local authorities my name, address, and location of my firearms. No way am I going to give authorities a short list when it comes time for gun confiscation in America.
In the event the SHTF (Obama wins and further destroys the nation, causing a counterrevolution, or Obama loses and his psychotic worshippers go on a rampage in their rage over perceived election fraud) I will carry a concealed weapon at all times without a permit to do so. The way I see it, law and order will have broken down, making permission to carry an obsolete concept. And I would no longer fear repercussions of any kind for being armed. Should my survival or that of my family be threatened, I will respond with deadly force.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
The shootings will continue until they disarm us, then the psychiatrists will be given their orders to stand down and stop programming shooters as often. That part of their job will mostly be complete, then they just need to keep medicating as much of the population as possible.
Reply to comment
Your observations and conclusions are 100% correct, This is true in nature as well; consider the honey bee, when the hive is attacked, they will swarm until the danger is eliminated; if one dies in battle a chemical is secreted which triggers others to come and join in the fray. A fleeing honey bee flying in the opposite direction of danger has never been observed when the hive is under attack.
Reply to comment
The ship they sailed on conducted a special class in what to do if their ship were to be boarded by hijackers.
The instructor advised them to pick up whatever was at-hand and throw it at any gunmen or terrorists.
It seams to me this is the old person’s version of swarming. 200 people in a dining room tossing salad plates might seem silly but it would restrict the shooter’s opportunities. It only takes one pot of hot coffee to take the fight out of an assailant.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
The Swarm Tactic. The shooter is probably a pansy who will be freaked out that people are attacking him instead of running. This will probably affect his accuracy thus increasing your own chances of a sucessgul swarm.
On allowing the insane to exercise their madness… I could write 3 novels on this subject and still not cover it. In todays society it is considered cruel and inhumane to lock people up in mental hospitals. So they wind up in jail. Mental Health advocates are trying to pressure politicians into making it illegal to send a mentally ill person to jail.
So what happens when you can’t commit a person to a mental hospital or put them in jail?? They go out and kill more people and have no consequences for it. Oh they might finally wind up in a mental institution but they won’t spend their entire life there. They are usually out on the street free as a bird within 5 years. That’s because the victims have less say on when they get out because the person is deemed mentally ill.
This issue is far more complicated than what I have presented it here. I’m just trying to give folks some idea of why so many crazy people are out there shooting people.
Many state hospitals have been closed since the 1970′s. That is because the mainstream media presented them as evil places where people were abused. The people who were confined there were put out on the street. That’s one reason there was an increase in homeless people. At the same time laws were enacted that made it hard to confine a dangerous person in a state hospital.
Until a way is found to treat these people in a common sense and humane way we will continue to have shootings.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
As a father, if I’m in a crowded place with my family and a shooter appears, I’m doing everything I can to help take him down. Swarming the shooter with two or three others seems to have the best odds of saving my loved ones, so that’s what I’ll do.
However, if I’m in the same situation but my family is NOT with me, the answer becomes far less apparent. Do I risk widowing my wife and letting my son grow up fatherless in order to save the lives of the strangers around me? But then again, isn’t that the kind of man I want to be in their eyes? But then AGAIN, would I want my son to help swarm a shooter in the same situation?
My fear of bodily harm and death is real. My fear for my family’s safety is real. My fear of a random and deadly act of violence, regardless of my proximity to it, is real.
But to me, the most terrifying thing any of us will ever encounter is someone who refuses to see the world in anything but black-and-white.
Reply to comment
So in that spirit, I’d like to encourage every father reading this to adopt the “swarm the shooter” mentality when your family is with you. If I’m someplace with my family, chances are good that there will be other families there too. I’ll have your back, if you have mine.
Reply to comment
Yes, I have to consider leaving my family fatherless and husbandless, but unfortunately it’s not for that, but for other inane areas where the law locks me up for defending myself (or creating deterrence after I’ve been incapacitatied and later I retaliated – certain crimes don’t get punished by our laws equaivalent to the harm caused to me). For traffic violations and all the pride areas, don’t go down unpeaceful roads, or you will not be there for your family; you’ll be locked up.
Active shooters? Rushing is the best way to protect YOURSELF, and therefore slide into 2nd base like Lou Brock, and break his or her knee. Or, whatever your rush technique is, but commit to the bum rush now. Get instantly pissed and snapping (FIGHT) when it happens, and *then* RUN OR HIDE per the DHA video. I’d just reverse the sequence.
Notice I did say “her” as an active shooter. It’s critical not to let the shock of an event or the gender confuse you to the deadly events occurring. Shock slows you. Never shock or surprise. Scan for sht to break while being mobile. Supreme call to action. React! “Break that MF!” If delays occur after shots are fired, and distances cause much time to elapse, then it will be necessary settle yourself, BREATH, and choose best course for yourself and those with you. If trapped, tell the panicked, “We will win” (prepare their mind for a fight, not an avoidance; don’t say, “We’ll get out of this” would). Give a brief, simple, useful assignment starting with, “I need your help. Take a deep breath sloowly. Find heavy books (call 911…etc).”
Way to go, Dad! Set the pace. It truly helps. Lots of brave gals out there, too. So lets have both genders feel the awesome responsibility of living as bravely and effectively as possible. Develop your hair trigger mentally for those who would attack us so visciously up close and personal. This hair-trigger mentality with an active (asocial) shooter differs from the social violence we can evaluate and avoid. No sense being primed for instantaneous attack in response to slow-building physical threats, when those can be maneuvered away from successfully.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Almost as sick is the guy who survived the four shot woulds at Virginia Tech.. he’s now working for the Bready Brats. Right…. disarm everyone, in theory.
The BEST strategy is to encourage an armed citizenry who are able and prepared to shoot back, taking the perp out quicky, or at least distracting him to reduce the “body count”. Seems most shooters have trouble continuing when they are being fired upon, even if not hit. The entire concept, per the government, is that THEY, government, the “professionals” are the ONLY ones able to respond. But we have a HUGE force of “First Responders” which will cost nothing in public money to mobilise…. the armed American. ALL of these shootings occur in areas where we, the armed citizen, have been disarmed by law or policy, this can NOT respond. Until THIS changes, such shootings will continue at an increasing pace. What will it take for SOMEONE to “get it”?
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
hard to hit. When I was in Nam my job as spec ops intel was to locate and transmit coordinates of enemy missle sites or troop build ups back to my HQ and under no circumstances revele my presence to the enemy. I was not allowed to engage in any firefight unless my life or the lives of my group were in immediate danger, if we were able to dispell that danger we were to disappear immediately. These tactics were taught by the finest special ops instructors in the world at that time. I never questioned them and I assume they were on the spot. They would not go well with your theory of armed ex military men being best in the Empire State shooting. For us to sit here and try to come up with a best case senario is a futile chore a best. We weren’t there. Every situation is different. How does the shooter carry himself, are his eyes those of an out of control maniac or a calm killer? There are hundreds of other things to take into account. The one thing that makes sense is to get the police the best training so they hit what they aim at and nothing else. They should be tested once a month and those that don’t pass must carry non lethal ammo
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
a couple of old sayings i like are guns don’t kill people kill people and when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
A few years ago I was working on a security paradigm for schools I called Swarming up til today I hadn’t realized it wasn’t just my idea.The problem is the fear no one will help,people who ride the NYC subways know the feeling.
Maybe there could be someway to indicate to strangers that you are someone who will act.
I know one thing that PSA film telling people to run and cower is a sure way to get killed.
Reply to comment
Now not to sound nasty about that, because few know what they will do when the bullets fly, to just aly there when you are that close to the shooter and not try and terminate in a very violent manner the shooter just lets him keep shooting.
Too many are worried or scared what if I get hurt, or I hurt the guy??? Well too bad! Kill the shooter! But as you know there are several factors in the fight or flight, so become deer in headlights.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
in a zig zag pattern, mostly he will not see you coming because his eye is on the ones hiding and running away.
Reply to comment
Now to your question. When are we going to REFUSE TO BE DIS-ARMED? The best response to an armed assailant is for several (or at least one) armed citizens to engage the attacker with accurate return fire. This will, at the very least, occupy his attention and buy time for the Sheep to leaving the area while the Sheepdogs engage the threat.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
C’mon over and show us how it’s done. It’s easy to sit in your truck and opine, quite another to put your life where your mouth is.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
“Sir, they’re shooting at us!”
“Well, shoot back!”
Blackhawk Down
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Do you live in NYC?
Have you been to NYC?
Have you at least seen the footage of where the shooting took place?
Gazzillions of all sorts of people on the street, rush hour traffic, loud sounds of buses, trucks, construction, sirens, tourists, vendors setting up…and you’re gonna propose what, someone call for swarming?! No one is gonna hear you or pay attention to you. They’ll think you’re just another nut and we’ve got plenty.
What worked on a plane that was going to crash anyway doesn’t translate here. You’ve got to get real and keep things in perspective.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Let me set it to music:
Tourists, buses, rush hour traffic, people going to work, street vendors setting up carts, delivery trucks double parked blocking traffic and pedestrian flow, messingers on bikes zipping by.
And in all that everyday madness, instead of the police, people (from all sorts of places–from Iowa to upper east side) with CCWs start shooting at the gunman who isn’t standng in the clear with a bull’s eye on his chest. And no one else gets hurt.
Yeh, that’ll work…in North Dakota, maybe.
What you are missing, however, is the bigger picture, which is that had people in the office been armed, the perp would not even have made it to the street. There would not have been people running around wondering what happened. The perp would be lying in a pool of his own blood, and the nice folks outside wouldn’t even know what was going on inside the building. There would be no more than the usual chaos on the street.
What you seem to be missing is that the shooting happened outside the office building NOT inside. The vic was walking back to the office with a woman co-worker when the shooter confronted him and shot him close up point blank.
The vic wasn’t carrying and neither was the woman (as that is a difficult thing to accomplish in NYC) And even if he was, this happened so fast that he wouldn’t have had the time to pull out his CCW.
To others in general:
If you’re gonna use this particular incident to make your point, stick to the facts and don’t mix in stuff that simply wouldn’t have applied here. It’s not a one size fits all issue, I don’t care who believes it is. The facts don’t support that notion and that’s all anyone should care about.
Also relevant are building tactics: slicing the pie around corners, how to move through doorways/choke points, not popping your head out multiple times, keep moving, etc.
Reply to comment
School had prayer. Boys carried knives. Words and fists were the weapons we used. (The knives were for entertainment or because you were a member of a gang, such as Cub or Boy Scouts.)
Today, children are subjected to main stream media and video; both games and dvd movies and have no idea that the things that they are seeing are neither real or normal.
Parenting has fallen by the wayside as has corpral punishment in the school. Reason? The criminals have rights and apparently more than the law abiding people.
The arogant majority of the US feel we are #1 and untouchable. 9/11 was just a Hollywood stunt?
The threat of being sued for stopping an inappropriate action has US worried that the good guys can’t win.
Never wait for the threat to come to you, do yourself a favor and meet it at least 1/2 way. The US has always taken on its foes as one…With the exception of the Civil War, and we all know how that turned out. We need to drop the PC out of our vocabulary. Look at what that “play nice” attitude has gotten us. The old folks stood up for what was right. The folks today don’t want to get involved with things that aren’t their business, much less stand up.
I may be one of the last to believe in this statement.
I would Kill or Die for my family or Country.
Death comes easy, it’s the violent reaction to a threat that most people find hard.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
The airplane guys had NOTHING to loose (they were gonna crash anyway) and they probably felt that saving untold others was at least something they could prevent if not save themselves.
“If only more Americans acted like Americans…”
Really? What would YOU have done if by chance you were a tourist from out of town happen to be around the Empire State blg. when the shooting took place. One person (woman) alone in a mass of strangers?
How would YOU have acted like an American? YOU, not others.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
I love weapons and carry them of all kinds. There are places I don’t because of danger to innocents. I don’t have to buy 50 rds of TFT, magazines, or reloads of TFT. It is in my mind at all times. BTW One I might get the opportunity to meet Tim one day and would like that to thank him for improving a better mindset to survive.. With that I am now off my soap box. ( This Rant was by Stuart Howard and Not passed by or ok’d by Tim)
Reply to comment
So I believe him 100% that the Government is behind everyone of these shootings. The reason is, the subversive Communist people & groups who control our Government (All 10 Planks are firmly in & have been for quite some time) are going to Destroy America & Western Europe just like they Destoyed Russia & Eastern Europe. Loot the Country & MURDER many of the masses & put in the Consentration the rest for starvation & death. They Murdered over 70 Million Russians & I don’t know the numbers of Eastern Europe, but you can imagine.
Reply to comment
As for this swarming tactics, is it all about who is ready and willing to be the first to lay down their life for the majority or hoping that my wounds from the shooter will not be deadly so I can get close enough to disarm him? cb
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/23/us/shootings-in-a-schoolhouse-the-hero-wounded-teen-ager-is-called-a-hero.html
which I found here: http://christopherdiarmani.com/733/common-sense/our-national-monument-to-womens-victimhood/
I liked that you spelled out that once the Israelis caught on to this tactic, the killers went on to use suicide bombings. I posted your blog on my facebook page with the comment that killers are killers; remove one tool and they’ll use another one.
That doesn’t justify innocent people being disarmed.
Reply to comment
fear factor I can see myself running
towards the shooter looking around and
suddenly feeling LONELY! I would have liked
to seen 10-20 armed concealed weapon
holders turn advance and take out the
shooter. The gun free zones are putting
our lives at risk when when law abiding
gun carrying citizens in my opinion would have
a better chance then hoping you are not
charging alone because of fear that cripples .
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Just be compliant fearful little sheep and let it happen. Peaple have been duped into thinking that the cops will take care of all these scary people…. What a bunch.. We might as well take the guns away frm cops and just give them big pieces of chalk to draw outlines of the victims on the ground.
Lets continue to teach our children to stick their heads in the sand and all the bad things will be made to disappear by our above reproach legislators.
sorry for being so negative…
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Besides, can any of you with a CCW guarantee that in a mayham, your bullets will hit only the criminal and not ricochet off stuff wounding or killing innocent bystanders?
Sounds to me that y’all with a CCW think that you could do better than a NYC cop…so if that’s the case, why don’t you become one? It’s easy to sit on the front porch and give advice…let me see you put YOUR life in danger every frigging day and then we can really talk.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
I’ve told my kids starting when they were in school you either have to get inside or outside the effect range of the tool/weapon your attacker is using.
Their mother always raised hell with me till these types of events started becoming so frequent. She has come around and did not give me to much hell (for an EX) when I gave them one of your classes for Christmas a few years ago and my daughter has been back for one advanced class.
Thanks for what you do in such a professional manner.
Reply to comment
Also, have you noticed that theaters are not a place that allows one to advance easily? The seats offer no protection from bullets, but they are effective anti-personnel barriers. You get to come at the guy standing down by the stage/screen from only a couple of lanes, lanes that are filled with people going the other direction as you. Those lanes are effective shooting lanes … for the perp. Someone earlier said to run zig-zag at the gunman; that’s not going to happen in a theater, which, by the way, will likely be illuninated only by the flickering movie screen, and we all know that Batman movies have very dark Gotham City lighting.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
I tell people time and time again that its better to fight than to be fish in a barrel. I get laughed at. If you dont have a clear and quick way to get to safety you are better off fighting for you life. YOU CANT DODGE BULLETS! You only other hope is that he runs out of bullets before he gets to you. Fantastic he kills 18 people but you got lucky. Instead of him killing 3 if people attacked him.
Again thank you Mr. Larkin i will pass this on.
Reply to comment
As taught by Tim and others, the mind is the weapon. It is best to have the mind prepared and that requires thought along with resoned decisions. Several posts discussed false flag attacks although they did not use that term. It is in all our best interests to understand what that term means and to personally research if they in fact are occuring in our country. I believe they are. We must take the time to seek the truth and to hold our country (local to federal) to the Constitution upon which it was founded. Much progress has been made to tear it down because it blocks the NWO from their grand evil plans.
There are many on the front lines fighting the battle for our minds and we must inspect the issues and join in that fight as well. You are already listening to TFT, check out Alex Jones, Stewart Rhodes, Dr Stan Monteith, Jesse Ventura, Joe Bannister, Joel Wallach, Ignatius Piazza… the list goes on and it is growing but this would be a good start.
As to swarming, it is a valid option depending on the situation and even more successful when others get out of their induced mind-haze and begin to think for themselves.
Reply to comment
I agree with the tactic. As you advocate in your products ( I have a 3) to close with the oponent/attacker is to limit(?) his options and also the damage he can inflict while at the same time giving you thew best opportunity to inflict your own damage as counter intuitive as it may seem.
It also seems the same tactic the Army/Marine ground troops are taught when dealing with a sniper – at least if they can not call in air support or something heavy. As a civilican in a civilian environment there is no “air support”.
This also seems like the tactic used by the flight 93 passengers on 9/11 who attempted to subdue the attackers, preventing the hijackers from hitting their intended target at expense of their own lives. Potentially saving many more lives.
I tend to agree with your recommendation – society has to be willing to take responsibility for their own survival in these situations. And government and the courts must respect and uphold that right/responsibility.
Thanks for pointing this out, or clarifying it.
Regards,
Mike Krajnik
Reply to comment
But this does beg the question: what if there are 2 or more shooters or as was in this case if the policy are shooting at the gunman, wouldn’t rushing the gunman cause more carnage? I’m thinking the answer is “it depends.” But on what?
Reply to comment
A construction worker who happened to witness the shooting followed Johnson from the crime scene toward 5th Ave knowing there’s heavy police presence there and pointed out the shooter. (he says this in an interview)
The police yelled, the shooter turned around, got the gun from his briefcase and shot at them–they returned 16 rounds and he was dead.
Now…the construction worker was very brave to do what he did but if you really want to take this “swarming” tactic to a place where it makes sense, the construction worker could have tackled the shooter (a slight 5’4″ guy) from behind AFTER his gun was already in his briefcase. In fact, when he went to follow him, his construction buddies discouraged him but he did it anyway. The time to act was then, not after the police was alerted. Even one construction worker let alone 3, could have easily taken him down without him being aware that they were right behind him. The police were right around the corner!
I know y’all are really enamored of this swarming idea as though it was mana from heaven but please keep it in perspective.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
I lived in Israel for about a year and those guys don’t take no shit from nobody. I have seen the swarm tattic preformed on some a hole that tried to shoot a crowd. Short story. 2 shot 1gunman with the beat shit out of him and no casiulties. It all went down in 3 to 4 seconds. Afterwards there was no panic no media pinhead blaiming shit on someone else, example the NYPD shooting bystandards, which is a crock of shit. So in the end we should all be armed at all times. Train as much as we can and be prepared to sacrifice ourselves if necessary to preserve life. I am not a tough guy or gun nut but I am a person that has decided not to be a victim. We all have the right to defend ourselves no matter what the political baboons may chirp about it.
Reply to comment
Remember that they have and have had peacetime mandatory draft (no exeptions) since the inception of the country.
“Women in the Israeli Defense Forces are female soldiers who serve in the Israel Defense Forces. Israel is the only country in the world with a mandatory military service requirement for women.[1][2][3] Women have taken part in Israel’s military before and since the founding of the state in 1948…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Israel_Defense_Forces
I dare anyone tell me that this alone doesn’t make a HUGE difference between us & them. When we have the same thing in our country, (sign me up!) we’ll begin to see a real change.
Until then, we can all just talk to ourselves and make non sensical comparisons.
Reply to comment
them to do these things and then kill them selves so no one will find it out.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Plus; up close limits what the shooter can do (accessing other weapons, reloading) – look at how many armed people can’t access their weapons when they are within arms reach of an opponent.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Let the next perp be taken down on the spot by bystanders and let’s prevent those NYC prized cops for shooting up the streets like the wild, wild west.
No amount of spin doctoring is going to fix this for Bloomberg. The BS rolls off his tongue like silk. There is no excuse for what transpired. Each and every one of those cops that shot an innocent bystander in defending THEIR OWN LIVES needs to be charged for their actions and needs to defend themselves in a court of law, being held as accountable as John Doe citizen who did not have the opportunity to stop the perp nor defend themselves in a life and death situation.
This is really getting stupid. Enough already.
Reply to comment
Maybe we should talk about the HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of other shootings that take place in NYC every year (and the number is growing is it now?) that don’t make the news big time as these incidents are suppressed by the media in order to gain your favour for future news stories.
Maybe we need to talk about where the perp got the gun he used? And why he was carrying in NYC, a city the prohibits guns vehemently? Maybe we should ask why there was not a single law abiding citizen able to draw a concealed gun and shoot down this SOB on the spot? Maybe we need to discuss the psychology of what went down and whether or not the threat of having ten citizens draw and shoot the perp down would have made a difference in his decision to shoot his co-worker? Maybe we should talk about getting NYC cops some more range time so they can shoot straight at five yards? For crying out loud, my son and I shoot IPSC/IDPA competitively for a hobby (not a living) and I can guarantee you that my 18 year old son could draw and place ten rounds rapid fire within the 5 ring for sure at five yards, nay, at 15 yards, no problem. What is with these cops anyway? Shooting up the streets? That just doesn’t cut it for me. Time to rid NYC and NY state of the anti-gun mindset and permit law abiding citizens (regardless of where they live, as long as they have been vetted) to protect themselves. Period. Nuff said.
It is hard to believe that mayors of major cities, senators and congressmen can be such flaming idiots in the face of imperical data but wonders will never cease.
Each and every one of those innocent bystanders needs to file suit against Bloomberg, NYC and those cops not just to recover their money for lost peaceful enjoyment of life, but to make the point that cops with guns are dangerous… likely more dangerous that qualified upstanding citizens that are armed.
Infuriating? To say the least.
Reply to comment
The point of the post was to explore the idea fo looking at what gives the Active Shooter his best results. It then becomes clear the lousy answer to dealing with this is swarming the shooter.
I see lots of “agendas” in the posts on this article and that is too bad.
We didnt create this post to talk about a particular shooting but to point out the principles of what makes it work well for the shooter then to deny him those parameters.
This tactic is best shown (of the recent well publicized shootings)at the Tuscon shooting of Congresswoman Giffords. Three untrained middle aged people “swarmed” and tackled the gunman and denied him further victims.
Noone “organized” or called for a swarm… it just became clear to those untrained individuals that that was a better option for them than hoping their not next.
This also happened in AZ a very gun friendy state and for whatever reason noone responded with a firearm. So there are no agendas on our part just looking at a problem then commenting to the best of our abilities what options we have if faced with such a scene.
This isn’t a cure all nor do we believe people will start training in this manner or organize such a response “on the fly”. We clearly point out the challenges to the tactic and felt regardless it was worth a discussion.
Reply to comment
Which is why everyone should be armed and trained. Then when the crowd heads to the exits a few armed and trained individuals can head at the active shooter and relocate his attention with bullets flying at his head and body (and most of these nut cases won’t be wearing body armor like the shooter in Colorado – that’s an unlikely aberration presently).
But the CHL/CCW holders have to have the mindset to take this action. If they run, well, why did they bother to carry weapons?
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
This is very insightful. I hope that if I ever find myself in that type of situation, that I can hunker down, pull out my concealed revolver, and be able to shoot the shooter. Swarming is obviously the right tactic for the group, and as in the airplane that crashed on 9/11 that is obviously what the people on that airplane did. I commend you for the guts to educate people on the correct action to take and hopefully these type of terror shootings will be able to be stopped.
Sincerely,
Ruth Fisher
Reply to comment
My reaction Partner and I practise for such eventualities on a weekly basis. Nothing beats clear muscle memory during times of stress.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
With children at school, it is probably too much to expect that they have developed sufficiently to act as adults in these situations. Another argument for more male teachers?
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
I am out in Oregon and I do carry openly, per the law in this state. I think that Swarming a shooter is the best option. However you compare the tactics of the Israeli’s to America’s people. Israel has a very different problem, their enemy’s are always close, they are in fact surrounded. Everyone is tacticly aware,having been in the military. We do not have this attitude, we rely upon Police to do this kind of work. Swarming is not an option in the States, it is something that they train for in Israel, even if we trained US citizens they do not have the mentality to finish the attackers.
To counter a shooter, we need to allow people to carry their weapons 24/7, in school, church, the movies. Here in Oregon, we can’t carry in school, guess what, that’s where our last shooting occured. I carry everywhere, and I do not wish to count on a bunch of americans to “Swarm the shooter”, they would be more likely to Swarm the Exit’s.
That would be great, I would have an excelent Shot at the attacker. James AKA Crazy ivan, Oregon
Reply to comment
A great article.Having been fortunate to have never been among the victims of this situation, it would be easy to second guess the actions of those folks. Human nature is so ingrained in self preservation that we all must train our minds for action to stop the shooter. It is the same as any disaster- fear kills. The statistics today are much better that you can survive a shooting, (95% survival)due to medical advances. Better to be shot with a chance of survival by acting than to be slaughtered like a sheep.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Active Shooter—A Call to Action – Target Focus Training < Liked it!
Reply to comment
Now heres another thought I had, Is being able to defuse a confetation with out thowing punch good.I mean I can talk some one out of a fight in a flash, but in my self I feel like a chicken.I go to beating my self up mentially. say why didnt I fight back.So where is there a school that teaches how to over come the feeze us in a real fight.
Reply to comment
Give up your Rights and you have no one to blame but yourself. You didn’t get your Rights from some politician or some government. They are yours whether or not you like it. What you do with them is entirely up to you. They are yours to keep — or stupidly throw away. The guys @ TFT have proven this over and over again in essays, videos, books and any other medium you can think of…
“If you can still think and move — you can kill him.”
Even prison inmates can still exercise their Rights and make themselves into lethal weapons and fashion lethal weapons and kill. The excercising of their Rights may well be confined to a very small space in time, but it is a Right nonetheless, and the exercise thereof is demonstrated daily, as we see everyday, in every single one of our prisons.
Your Rights are yours to keep — should you decide to keep them.
Let’s not hear any more of this nonsense about how some law or some government or some politician is going to take them away. That is quite impossible.
Your Rights are yours to keep. Your chosen weapon is your brain focused and trained to strike targets with whatever means available to you. The rest is ancillary.
I chose too reserve all my Rights at all times and I choose TFT Forever.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
This is what we did after 9/11. I pity the fool who causes a disturbance on an airplane these days. People refuse to allow another 9/11 type incident and immobilize disruptive passengers on a regular basis. Fear has been replaced with resolve and determination. Whether you are unarmed or licensed to carry, this resolve and determination are essential.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
If it had a lot more pictures this would certainly be quite possibly better.
Cya -Georgiana
Reply to comment
That’s just another mewsmaxx poll to complete a questionaire for ‘what should we do about the Conn Newtown children shooting’ with six adults for President Obama and Vice President Biden, Feintin-, and finally our local state representatives.
Well learning how to suvive may be the best prepper anternative and problem solver where we presently stand to our 2nd ammendment gun laws.
I rather learn to protect my family who are less protected day-to-day by the Police, National Guards, or US Army. That said, i will focus on self defense combat training than how to fall a vict- to a social path, grazed killer, rapes, or change or make a new gun law for the media criminals.
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Reply to comment
Thanks
Reply to comment