You take your family on a drive along a beautiful mountain road.
The kids are looking off to the left at the amazing view as your car hugs the mountain on the right.
Suddenly, small rocks begin dropping, hitting the road, and pelting off your car.
In a moment of terror you recognize it’s the start of an avalanche. You’ve thought about this possibility in the past and now its ‘go’ time.
What are you gonna do as the rocks continue to fall — faster and bigger?
You want to take action, in fact, your foot is straining to hit the accelerator. Yet you hesitate!
Why?
Flashing through your mind you see yourself getting a felony speeding ticket for reckless driving if you take action. And this dilemma causes you to freeze, frantically trying to think of another answer. But the rocks just keep falling — bigger, faster and now there’s a lot more of them…
A ridiculous situation? Of course. And obviously, unless you are a fool, you’ll hit the accelerator and do everything you can to get your car to safety to protect you and everyone else in it.
Yet as obvious as this situation is to you, I get the same question posed to me about various self defense laws and the liabilities you may face if you take action to “defend” yourself in a life-or-death situation. Usually people are very thorough in their analysis of the the situation and ask me for exact levels of response that they may “safely” use to protect themselves yet be “proportional in response to the threat.”
After dealing with sane, socialized clients for the past 20 years I understand what you’re grasping for with such questions. Unfortunately I’m constantly forced to be the one dumping a bucket of ice water on these reveries of “self defense realities.”
I do this first by quickly asking people the “scenario” you are imagining. If it does not constitute a life-or-death situation then I summarily dismiss the situation.
If the imagined scene is a life-or-death situation I then walk folks through the above “mountain road” analogy. And you quickly see that once the rocks start falling you must hit the gas and go for it all out. Any other course of action will leave you crushed under tons of rock.
At the point of violence when someone attacks you with the intent to do “grievous bodily harm” (yep, I threw in a popular legal self defense term) there are no options and no such thing as a proportional response.
Furthermore in that very scenario the only person concerned with the law is YOU. The other guy is too busy stabbing, stomping or shooting to be concerned about laws nor does it matter to the asocial criminal. It’s the dirty little secret most self defense and reality fighting programs leave out of their training. In fact they often go overboard with the legal aspects of such incidents while ignoring the physical realities of violence.
In the above mountain road scenario once the rocks are falling you need to hit the gas — not worry about getting a speeding ticket.
Now an intelligent question to ask is what decisions did the driver make before traveling that road. Did he ignore warning signs? That is when you can really make a difference in avoiding even the possibility of facing an avoidable ‘avalanche’ in your life.
I wrote a whole book on that subject and it’s the best Self Defense insurance you can buy. My job is to make sure my clients avoid every possible personal self defense avalanche in their lives so they never freeze when they should, instead, be hitting the gas!
Pretty much the same answer I give my students when it comes to self-defense. Or, as my old instructor used to say, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.” Do what you have to do to survive.
Comment by Tim — January 19, 2010 @ 7:42 pm
Great analogy Tim, it reminds me of a quote used by Edgar Rice Burroughs in The Gods of Mars, “He who hesitates is lost.” It’s a sure bet that no action or hesitant action when real violence strikes will lead to disaster. It doesn’t make you an animal or a criminal to put one down, it makes you a survivor!
Comment by Jim — January 19, 2010 @ 8:11 pm
“There” lives?
Also, “…concerned about laws” could use a comma before, “nor does it matter…”
Grammar Nazi is all I can manage. Couldn’t find a thing out of place with the rest of how good it was.
Comment by santeewelding — January 20, 2010 @ 3:48 am
I like the analogy Tim and Chris use with a gun… TFT is no different in it’s use and intended outcome. The real “danger” is the brain of the thug, not the tools. But the law doesn’t think that way. That’s why good cops, who follow the law get beat up and die.
Use a gun to defend yourself and your gun will be destroyed (during “examination”) and you arrested and probably tried. Very expensive, time consuming and the price of living in a nation that has a legal system to protect the innocent and collects money from the survivors to pay for it. An ordeal worth living through given the choices.
If you can understand it’s the guy who was the problem, and not your methods; then depend on convincing your peers that TFT was your only choice, but at a price. There is likely to be a lawyer who will know you trained to be a killer and he’ll want to make you look like a brainless gun.
Life may deal you the opportunity to use these skills, being able to survive is worth it… keep in mind there will be a show that follows… keep it real. Unlike the DVD training scenarios you probably won’t just “walk away, fade camera to black”. But you will move on with your own power, most likely with a police escort.
Gun and CCW Experts recommend you talk to a lawyer about what it means to shoot someone when you get a CCW permit, don’t wait until after you killed a perp. Part of learning to swim to safety is knowing what to do when you get out. I live near the Pacific Ocean in Northern California. People die from hypothermia after getting pulled out of the water. They thought swimming was enough and drowning was the only problem. Not any more.
Going to court after defending yourself on the street won’t get you killed, but unless it really was a dark alley and no one saw you coming or going; you probably will end up in court. It’s another reason to only fight when you have to. Otherwise you’re gambling on some shaky motivation that witnesses may paint in a very dark color.
Do you want to be fully prepared?
Know what matters to an investigator, defender and prosecutor after a fight to the death or life crippling injury… Tim/Chris… can you post something on that? Not that you want to tamper with evidence, you certainly don’t want to disarm a dead man after it’s over(or do you?) Are there things you “should say” and things you “definitely don’t say”? To the first witnesses on the scene, the police who show up too late to help you survive and now see you as a threat to the public?
Know a good DA who’s willing to share?
Knowledge trumps fear. Fear of the legal system will compromise your intent and get you killed. If it bothers you, make it part of your training.
Comment by Bill — January 20, 2010 @ 8:23 am
Chances are that in such life-or-death situation, you won’t be able to even think about legal consequences.
Anyway, as Geoff Thompson has pointed out so brilliantly in his book “Dead or Alive”, your freedom often depends more on what you say than what you did. That is, after the conflict is over, you will have to give very careful thought to how you’re going to explain to the police what you did and why you did it. As a lawyer, I can absolutely confirm that.
Comment by Lawless — January 20, 2010 @ 10:59 am
When I was a kid growing up, both my Dad and my Grandfather, used to tell me, “When you fight it’s life or death. Every single time. That man is doing everything in his power to kill you, and you had better be doing everything in your power to kill him first.” I argued that statement, with them when I was younger, but the bottom line is anytime somebody puts there hands on you or attempts to put there hands on you in any way to cause you harm, it’s go time. Period. You do everything you can to end the problem. Whether that be unconscious, him begging you to stop,(which I have some doubts on that one, cause they could just want you to stop so they can shoot you), or dead. I never ever want to know what it feels like to kill somebody, not ever. But I don’t want to be the one laying there, meeting my maker either. Any physical alltercation can turn bad really quick. Whether it started social or asocial. Every single time you get into a violent encounter, the possibility of killing someone or dying is greatly increased. Even on an accident. Most of us don’t think about that, but it’s very true. My whole life I’ve been taught, “Walk across the street to avoid trouble, hell run if you have to, but if they follow you….THen it’s better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.” Just as the previous poster said. And it is as true today, as the first time it was said.
Comment by Nick — January 20, 2010 @ 12:47 pm
Do what you gotta do. Hesitate and you’re dead. Get in, cause injury, get out. If ”the law” attacks you afterwards, fight it with the same ruthless focus – and you’ll win again.
Comment by Terry — January 20, 2010 @ 2:17 pm
It is unfortunate that many people are so concious of being sued or arrested. I know the difference between right and wrong and carry out my life on this basis. I will stand up and protect myself if necessary and fight for my rights as necessary in court. Right now I am dealing with getting a surgical procedure done and the doctors want everyone to sign off that it will be ok because if something goes wrong they dont want to take the blame. I know that something may go wrong and hope it doesnt but either way it is something I cant control. Saving my life if attacked on the street I can and will.
Comment by William Lewis — January 20, 2010 @ 4:15 pm
Since taking the live training I have made an effort to always read the “falling rock sign”, “the deer crossing”, the “speed bump ahead”. Recognizing and avoiding situations + conspicuous courtesy have become habits that lubricate social living and personal peace. A good track record will weigh in your favor if you ever come to that time when violence is the only option.
Comment by John — January 20, 2010 @ 8:09 pm
I’ve always minded my own, never bothered anyone, and have a highly developed sense of situational awareness. If someone comes looking for it, after I’ve done everything possible, having done my due dilligence, it’s one then. And I’ll do anything I have to to protect me and mine, and neutralize the threat. I’ve a CWP as they’re termed here in S.C., and know fully well how the “Lefty Loons” in the government, want to give the criminals a “pass” by letting them off the hook, with a legal system that’s stacked to their advantage and not mine. It makes perfect sense to learn this system inspite of the costs. How can you put a price on your phyiscal safety and wellbeing? I don’t “cheapout,” when it comes to my life in anyway. I’m getting my education handled later in life, I’m taking care of my health more now than ever before. So, why would I risk the investment (myself) by not insuring I had what it took to survive conus (contiental U.S.) or overseas? It’s mashugna (I’m Jewish) it’ll take alot more than the threat of legal ramifications to make me abbrogate my civil rights the founding fathers bequethed to me, through what this country is all about.
Comment by Thomas Wilson — January 22, 2010 @ 1:20 am
I believe Tim’s closing paragraph is summed up this way: Better to not be judged by twelve OR carried by six.
Comment by Ruben — January 22, 2010 @ 3:37 am
LOVE AND WAR
True enough, any response to avoid an actual “life or death threat” is “reasonable under the circumstances”. However, the smart predators don’t necessarily give you a clear indication of their intent before it is too late to avoid it. Instead, they employ deception, stealth, and cunning to try to surprise you.
To effectively prevent an accident, you first have to see it coming. One thing is for sure, if you are not in proximity, then you can not make “love or war” at any level.
Comment by craig bradley — January 22, 2010 @ 10:59 pm